Kick Flick

[wrayayrton]

this is a thread for the progress of my wannabe skateboarding game kickflick
not going to be anything playable (probably ever) but this is a better way to organize all my skateboard-game centric 3d stuff

http://i.imgur.com/wmPRVqN.jpg

this is a spot ive been working on on a rooftop


https://youtu.be/W139ecs85gw

most recent cameratest playblast

[NotedDerk]

That looks pretty awesome, though I would never have the balls to ever try anything on something like that, one mistake and either you're dead or your board is gone, haha.

[saunders420]

shibby. keep rollin homie. love little things like this. even if we dont get to play, it is always fascinating.

[emericaridr11]

may I ask what the Text on the Side of the Building says?
just curious

[PoppySquidJr]

Looks Tony Hawk-ish, but in a good way. I like it.

[Antwan]

Looks challenging to skate haha.

check out the skate parks section if you need some inspiration.

I had an idea you're free to use, a mega ramp roll in with all the fixings..
Leads to a Step up rooftop landing that has a fun box..
Drops into a pool.
Could also google mega ramps If you want design ideas.

Whatever the case, good stuff.

[wrayayrton]

if i made a skate game, it would focus on realism in the form of incredibly insane tricks being possible through repeated failed attempts. you would have to remember either different key combos or very specific mouse flicks or a combo of both, and it would be more small spot-restart centric. that would be a way to keep levels small and budget down. if you look at the rooftop, there are a whole lot of available lines. stairs, manny pad, bowl piece, quarterpipes, and a mini mega ramp to another roof

[Antwan]

I would go crazy if I could make that stuff though.
If you're not planning for a game why restrict yourself that way?
Just sayin!
If you're setting it up for success however, then I would get it.
Not trying to down on you just saying go nuts if it hits ya.
why not?

[wrayayrton]

i have to work a lot and other times bouts of creative block and psychotic depression keep me from really working on this stuff like i oughta but i feel like if i keep everything in the same project folder, eventually i'll have enough crap to actually call this a project or at least make a pretty looking kickstarter :P

[Antwan]

Right on. The depression bit sucks.
If you can play nice with others though it wouldn't be impossible.
Get a team together, maybe even consider the indie studio route.
Set some goals, work on one at a time, achieve the dream.
Not to say it would be easy but effort/work ethic, and continuance/consistency would be key.
I think it's fair to say with anything you want done..
To plan it out and see what all it would take will make or break your passion for it.
Might take more than one try, have fallback options.

[wrayayrton]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIcEu_p4yGs

which shader do yall like best?

[PoppySquidJr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIcEu_p4yGs

which shader do yall like best?

Cel Shade w/ Bumpmap 2 would be my vote, but the models and textures would need to be largely redone to accomodate any kind of cel-shading. Cel-shading only looks good when the entire game (or animation, whatever) is completely designed around it. For cel shading you'll want very simple, clean textures compared to normal. Look at:

Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker
Jet Set Radio (and Jet Set Radio Future)

Even Borderlands has simple textures to accomodate its cel shading, albeit more detailed than the other two

[wrayayrton]

tbh that's kinda what I thought looked cool is the combo of celshading with realistic textures. I will continuously be updating the character models and may go for more low-poly versions with less photorealistic textures but I like the scenery as is. If I was to make lower polygon more basic chararacters however, It would probably drive more simplicity into the animations and scenery too and idk if thats really what I wanna do for a PC skateboarding game centric around realism. jet grind radio looks cool but it is in no way based on realism.

the most important moments I hope to capture is the satisfaction you get in skate and ssx as you see a really complicated line or string of tricks barely landed, then go in and look at the fabulously animated replay from all angles. but hopefully the moment will be more satisfying due to the string of failed attempts preceding it

even if i keep mental ray mode, I'm gonna have to do lower quality preview viewport renders just so my computer doesnt have to shit itself every time I try and render out an animation

[Antex]

The celshader no bump higher contrast looks awesome, gives off a borderlands feel. :)

[PoppySquidJr]

tbh that's kinda what I thought looked cool is the combo of celshading with realistic textures. I will continuously be updating the character models and may go for more low-poly versions with less photorealistic textures but I like the scenery as is. If I was to make lower polygon more basic chararacters however, It would probably drive more simplicity into the animations and scenery too and idk if thats really what I wanna do for a PC skateboarding game centric around realism. jet grind radio looks cool but it is in no way based on realism.

the most important moments I hope to capture is the satisfaction you get in skate and ssx as you see a really complicated line or string of tricks barely landed, then go in and look at the fabulously animated replay from all angles. but hopefully the moment will be more satisfying due to the string of failed attempts preceding it

even if i keep mental ray mode, I'm gonna have to do lower quality preview viewport renders just so my computer doesnt have to shit itself every time I try and render out an animation

The problem with high detail textures with cel shading is that it makes the cel shading look like a crutch for subpar graphics, even if it isn't. Cel-shading is meant to be used as a stylistic choice to lighten the GPU load on a game, but generally speaking people find cel-shading with realistic textures to be really muddy and gross (just look at the new Tony Hawk game's recent attempt to use cel-shading)

That being said, simpler textures, models, and overall graphics have absolutely zero impact on how realistic the animations would have to be, that's only if you change the actual proportions of the limbs and such. Many 3D Indie games, for example, focus on highly detailed animations to compensate for the graphics being literal stand-in graphics and simple templates.

[wrayayrton]

The problem with high detail textures with cel shading is that it makes the cel shading look like a crutch for subpar graphics, even if it isn't.
that was exactly what I was using it as, also as a way to have a cool looking style from a simple 3ds max viewport preview


(just look at the new Tony Hawk game's recent attempt to use cel-shading)
maybe this is an unpopular opinion around here but I think the new tony hawk game looks fucking sweet


That being said, simpler textures, models, and overall graphics have absolutely zero impact on how realistic the animations would have to be, that's only if you change the actual proportions of the limbs and such.
and that's the plan, i plan to make a few departures from absolute realism in the ability to have ridiculous lines, and thus the animations will reflect that. originally I just went for a different height and colour interaction for the characters of my skate animations, not quite so much changing the sillhouette, but although that makes character creation easier with the use of direct photos to textures, I think a hand-drawn flat shaded look would make this stuff more immediately discernable from every other skate game, but it kind of takes the game's appearance further away from the "magical realism" that skate 3 aimed for in which a detailed believable scene is invaded by something unbelievable or impossible i.e. a 360 hardflip nosebluntslide nollie 360flip out

[wrayayrton]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iNKFwB5HkY

And now, for all of the camera possibilities I have considered. also, the pros/cons of each. any other suggestions of cameras you guys can think or more pros/cons of the current ideas are encouraged

Still Topdown Cam:

Pros- no skate game has been done like this, would allow for more mobile/mouse centric gameplay (i.e. drawing/brushing the skater's path and then hitting key commands for tricks necessary along the way), will be much less of a task and probably in the end allow for more simple physics without close scrutinization of animation that closer cams bring
Cons- requires a system for moving the camera to be separate from controlling the skater, kind of static, not really that exciting

Improved Skate Cam:

Pros- sick as fuck, exciting, allows for a more recognizable gameplay style, good for realism and ridiculousness
Cons- VERRRRY difficult to make I'm sure,

Sidescroller Cam:

Pros- my anims look best this way IMO, MUUUUCH simpler to program skateboarding game results (2.5 D)
Cons- sidescroller makes realism very difficult to mimic, also requires levels designed especially for 2d skating, much less creativity

Topside Cam Locked to Skater:

Pros- Could be part of the topdown (brush skating) idea I had (keybind will lock camera to char), if not would make for interesting control scheme, much more mobile-phone accessable
Cons- less impact, no thought has yet been put into whether turning will be possible or simply "lane changing" this way.

THPS/third person platformer Cam

Pros- Game becomes inviting to THPS FANS, more focus on scenery
Cons- Game becomes repulsive to SKATE FANS, less likely to be a simulation experience at this angle/distance

Foot Cam

Pros- much more grounded to skateboard tricks, less focus on arms/ top body animations, keeps game in realistic scope
Cons- skater blocks much of the screen, needs to understand whether youre going at something backside or frontside, you dont get to see the fingers (my fav part) as much

[wrayayrton]

https://youtu.be/5Fqw2GDxNTY

nobody even commented on the last one but heres another game-related animation. I've decided to redo all the character models in a much more "lowpoly" style, and will post an update on that soon

[Jack]

I like the animations. The skater's body is moving and alive.

[Antwan]

I think the option to switch between cameras would be good.
Side scrolling cameras are okay for linear games.
I'm guessing you're approaching an open world game with the compacted spots just around that rooftop even.
Would be cool to see some bailing animations too!
Your game, just some ideas, if you want them.

[wrayayrton]

https://youtu.be/cOYOuRChwNM

Going to redesign all the characters to be much more basic, flat, lowpoly, and cartoony because it's looking more and more like mobile may be the best platform for someone like me to first try making a skateboarding game, also I plan to make the sillhouettes much more distinct and drive the "character driven" SSX tricky aspect of the game. the idea is still to have the same animation style and realism but at this point I'm pretty sure the scenery will be having an overhaul too

@antwan- bails is a good idea. I typically have more fun animating the skateboarding and figure bails in game wouls just be ragdoll physics, but I maybe can post a few examples up here since its true it would be smart to start looking early at how to make such a system

[wrayayrton]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53u1YjRvFfk

heres another video update with some new animations

[wrayayrton]

https://youtu.be/6x1gfrU9mEA

at this point not entirely sure which character style imma use but here's the animations so far. all thats complete is basic riding, crouching, ollies, and landings from all positions I'm thinking of doing many different characters, each one getting 5 regular, 5 fakie, 5 switch, and 5 nollie tricks, and making the game 2D or 2.5D to keep it simple, perhaps expandable in the future

[TheIronz]

God-Speed fluckiteer.

Game looks fun as shit.

[Antwan]

Really is impressive stuff Wray. I used to animate 2D 8-32 bit sprites. Another level here but it does take me back. The FULL crouch makes me think of boned Ollies. Could be cool to compensate crouch for height. Call me the idea guy haha.

[wrayayrton]

thank you both very much! I was thinking of a trick system in which a key on the keyboard is pushed starting the character preparing and crouching for the trick. once the key is released (optimally at the lowest point in the crouch animation) the character pops and the trick begins. I am still debating whether or not to implement a key press that will be necessary to catch the board or to land a trick, or if the tricks will be automatically landed to make for more obstacle centric gameplay. as it is I still do not have a programmer available to me but I hope to fix that soon.

this is if the game is 2/2.5 D
here's an update of the animations. I've done a few tricks from every stance except switch. still deciding if spins will be handled by animation or in-game. I'm making sure these anims look good from every angle so that they can be used in whatever type of game i'm able to produce.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtg3U6hX8R8

[Antwan]

Well, if you did go 2D you should tackle free movement in levels. I've yet to see a 2D Skateboarding game that captures hitting areas. They are usually one line and you're done. Restart to find new stuff. Could include, off board, cavemans, running, jumping, full control in each level.

[wrayayrton]

https://youtu.be/ETc7gnde2PE

the "tremaker" 360 flip late fs 180

inspired by the "haymaker"

new special trick for the game

[wrayayrton]

https://youtu.be/W139ecs85gw

more camera analysis stuff. id love anyones opinion!

[Thick]

Wowza! Good job, Wrayayrton! I hope you get rich