C.A.P. killed creativity.

[jerr bear]

Yes.

[Demzilla]

really?


elaborate...

[NotedDerk]

care to elaborate?

[jest118]

I think the insinuation is that CAP gave us the ability to make whatever spots we pleased.. so we're less apt to try to skate PC in more unique and creative ways. I'd argue that CAP in and of itself is it's own outlet for Creativity.

[adda89ldn]

you're mad cause i'm stylin on you.

[pawnluvguitarist]

I agree and disagree. For me CAP got old for me building my own stuff and skating my own stuff. Since i could just build stuff around the specific trick i wanted or whatever. But skating all the CAP faction parks or SG's parks is a different story.

[Demzilla]

i think jerry bear is looking for the next engine exploit...

lets face it..
we all can roam around and get tricks..
but thats not what jerry bear wants and i agree...

took me 4 days to get a grind on the low rail that i was happy with...specifically because im going against what the engine wants to do..
like wallies..
like bonks...

me and jerr need a new "trick"...

[pawnluvguitarist]

I dunno, after going back to OG, I kinda view S3 in a different way. I pretty much only do stuff that can only be done in S3, be it CAP or different Flatground variations ect. All the engine breaking stuff is just so much smoother in OG, but S3 allows me to do more of my RL kinda stuff. Kinda off topic, but i dont think anything can kill your creativity, if you wanna get creative theres nothing stopping you

[FullyFl4RED00]

The idea of create-a-park killing creativity seems really counter-intuitive to me. I have replicated several real life spots that I've seen in magazines, skate videos, etc. If anything CAP gives us more room for creativity because we don't get stuck skating the same spots over and over again. With CAP you can have an idea of a certain trick at a certain spot and if you have the talent you can turn that idea into a real tangible thing. If your point was that CAP allows people to keep doing the same "tricks" only on new objects then that is just kind of odd because the nature of skating involves people doing the same tricks on different spots...yeah there is innovative stuff that comes out every once in awhile with regard to tricks but a big part of skateboarding is taking a bag of tricks onto all different types of spots. That's just the reality of it. BUT even if a lot of people are getting stuck in the same sort of thing doesn't mean its killing creativity, just that people have developed certain styles that they like to use with regards to filming/trick/selection/editing. It doesn't mean that you have to follow that style though...you can always do things different than everyone else. CAP gives people more possibilities for innovation and that is a foundation for creativity so I disagree.

[Mathiys]

I see Pro's and Con's

[Roccityroller]

Jerr Bear is right.

and i think i agree for different reasons. I see it as noone looks for spots anymore? they just go to a great CAP and spots are placed in front of them. It's easy. I mean look at it this way, this time in S2, we already had tons of spots in NSV named (handigap, darkness, etc). Freeskate sessions were more of "come check out this sweet spot i found" "I can't, i don't have a map".

But i CAP opens up the possibilities of what there is to skate, but it takes away from the search for something new to skate and trying to find creative ways to hit things.

[thesignguy]

Didn't Linny say this?
It was either cap or movables

Anyway how could anyone read into a one word post

My guess is he was more interested in seeing if anyone bit to his social experiment
If so he obviously guessed right

[FullyFl4RED00]

Yeah but to say that CAP takes away from "searching for spots" just doesn't make sense. You can search for spots all you want CAP doesn't hinder that in any way the original map is still there. It just adds the "what can be made" factor to the "what can be found" factor. Its an addition not a subtraction. When CAP was created it wasn't at the cost of anything. You foolish fools!!!

[Roccityroller]

Yeah but to say that CAP takes away from "searching for spots" just doesn't make sense. You can search for spots all you want CAP doesn't hinder that in any way the original map is still there. It just adds the "what can be made" factor to the "what can be found" factor. Its an addition not a subtraction. When CAP was created it wasn't at the cost of anything. You foolish fools!!!

Yea but what's easier? A) searching through PC for a new spot B) loading a Skate.Park

[Wiltzuh]

Jerr Bear is right.

and i think i agree for different reasons. I see it as noone looks for spots anymore? they just go to a great CAP and spots are placed in front of them. It's easy. I mean look at it this way, this time in S2, we already had tons of spots in NSV named (handigap, darkness, etc). Freeskate sessions were more of "come check out this sweet spot i found" "I can't, i don't have a map".

But i CAP opens up the possibilities of what there is to skate, but it takes away from the search for something new to skate and trying to find creative ways to hit things.

Yeah i have to agree that...BUT not everyone. My passion in S3 is still trying to get on rooftops to see new stuff to skate...doesn't matter is it crappy roofgap or nice UG rail. It's all new...i'm always trying to get higher tops and higher...

BUT, creative is not just spots...maybe it killed manies creativity to film in Port Carverton. For me (and for many others), it gave chance to be even more creative. I wouldn't be playing S3 anymore without CAP. Creativity for me in S3 is creating new spots...not just that same flatbar over and over again. I was just testing my new park with Marco and we really figured out that theres always more and more different spots to create. Creativity is not just filming in Game map. In my opinion CAP gave more creativity into skate series. I'm not trying to shut down anyones opinion. Everyone has own opinion...i appreciate it.

Woah that took long to write that sh!t haha =D CAP <3

[FullyFl4RED00]

I agree that it is harder to find a unique way to skate a hard to find/new spot than it is to just load a skate.park, but I'm talking about creativity and whether or not CAP has "killed" it. Are there not creative ways to skate CAPs? Are there not creative ways to make CAPs? Whats harder A) searching through PC for a new spot...or C) having an idea for a new spot, making it (making it well of course), and then finding a unique way to skate that? Yes...CAP has made it so some people stop looking for new spots in PC, but you don't have to stop looking because PC is still there waiting to be thrashed in new ways. What CAP has done is expand the possibilities of what we have to play with. Creativity=create.a.park+PC.

[SeksulChokolate]

I feel as though, to me, the best way to approach this game is to skate the world that has been laid in front of one's self. As others stated, there is nothing better then skating a spot that has been hit before and finding a whole new approach to it. The reason why this game can operate on so many different skill levels/styles is spot selection. A plaza can be viewed in one light, but then completely altered by skating it from the other way.

As much as I appreciate the exceedingly thorough CAP's, I receive more of a satisfaction when finding a spot in SV/NSV/PC than hitting a perfectly made stairset...

Every city in the world is quirky and to a point a little difficult to skate. The worlds in the skate franchise do a nice job replicating that imperfection.

rooftops...

[Wiltzuh]

I agree that it is harder to find a unique way to skate a hard to find/new spot than it is to just load a skate.park, but I'm talking about creativity and whether or not CAP has "killed" it. Are there not creative ways to skate CAPs? Are there not creative ways to make CAPs? Whats harder A) searching through PC for a new spot...or C) having an idea for a new spot, making it (making it well of course), and then finding a unique way to skate that? Yes...CAP has made it so some people stop looking for new spots in PC, but you don't have to stop looking because PC is still there waiting to be thrashed in new ways. What CAP has done is expand the possibilities of what we have to play with. Creativity=create.a.park+PC.

Yes...and CAP has also gave us possibilities to skate stuff that it's not possible to find in PC...how many polejams you find from PC...or ungrindable handrails ?
Personally i'm fallen in love to create Wallies because a) RL skating b) Because of CAP's.

I have also found out that i've found new stuff to skate in PC because of CAP. I have liked some obstacle in some CAP...i have never liked to film CAPs for Solo's or FL parts...so i have tried to find similar spot or obstacle from game map. I have many spots AND TRICKS that i have found out that way

I'm still saying that CAP didn't killed creative all it's ways...it opened new ways to be creative...and new ways to find creativity. Just IMO

[thesignguy]

Almost unlimited layers killed creativity in the gc

[thesignguy]

Almost unlimited layers killed creativity in the gc

yes

[emericaridr11]

so yall dont want us to upload caps anymore..... make you find spots....... haha JK

Jerr...... do CAPs make you skate the way They wanted it to be skated...... OH BUMMER DUDE!

[SeksulChokolate]

so yall dont want us to upload caps anymore.....

hell no...keep em comin'

[i am a snail]

cap hasn't killed creativity, just given it a different output.

however its pretty much made pc obsolete and this makes me sad since i still find plenty of stuff to do there anyway.

[killer kow20]

I agree in a way. its fun to skate CAPs but if im making a solo or any video i refuse to use clips from a CAP because there is so much that can still be done in PC. you got to find new ways to skate old spots and you may not think there is but there is stuff to find you just have to cruise around the city and it will catch your eye believe me.

[Ayreon]

well if you feel it killed your creativity then don't skate them...and look for spots in PC.

[Ohmidineffect]

I build caps constantly but I also climb roofs and buildings to find new ways to skate things,you can't complain because cap creators made it easier for you to have spots if you wanna be creative go do it! No ones MAKING you skate C.A.P.s. But you saying CAPS killed the creativity is like a mega ramp kid saying realistic skaters killed the fun. The games all in how YOU play it.

[TACOPUNISH3R]

I think the "hunt" for spots in the previous two games was a factor that kept many people playing and putting out great videos towards the end of each game's run. On the same note, the CAP feature filled that role in Skate 3 for some people. In my personal opinion, I feel more satisfied when I find a nice spot within the real city, but that's just me. One can still try this in Skate 3, but I think many people see the CAP feature as the "easy way" out. There have been many great CAPs, but I feel like they caused many people to give up on Port Carverton. A year after the Og and Skate 2 were out respectively, people were still finding lots of new spots within each game's cities. This was partially because that was ALL we had. The CAP was a nice addition though (it gives me a reason to get on s3 from time to time).
So I guess I agree and disagree lmao.

[MarcoPoloUSN]

I don't agree with Jerrel.

With CAP you can take a break from PC. Skate 3 would have died last august without it.

edit: CAP is a part of being creative with this game (in a different way), BUT it killed the spot searching. Truth.

[Ohmidineffect]

It's not that CAP killed it, It's more work to go look for stuff especially with the seperated cities, you don't just skate around aimlessly because you'll be doing one big circle. DLC has some fun random shit though. Like I said if you REALLY want to skate PC you'll do it but we all agree that its a shit city compared to SV And NSV.

[MarcoPoloUSN]

Yes it is a shit city. However you can find many ways to skate little parts of it. I can't do that personally. I personally can't skate PC for more than 20 minutes without getting bored. CAP makes me not want to spot search. Maybe in the next 6 months there will be no such thing as spots in PC. CAP covers that.

[EternalRewind]

No......

This is created spots and its creative

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9xu36chROE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmMNK515qls

The ender trick I did in my last solo is creative and so is a lot of other peoples CAP spots. I see what your saying jerr bear and yeah PC sucks, but CAP is creative imo

[Slamooh]

I agree and thats partly why i dont like CAP
Skateboarding doesnt seem to be about building your spot imo... its about finding a spot and interesting ways to hit it...everyone can hit a rail or a stairset in this game... its weak to do it imo... people keep on doing it though over and over
Since the beginning skateboarding has always been about finding and adapting to spots (see how empty pools made bowl riding), finding the trick (+filming) that goes perfectly with the spot ...
adapting the environment to your fake skating can be considered as laziness
thats why i loved filming for PTC ... go to "insert location" and film... Constraint makes you be creative and think different
And i m way more excited by a creative way to hit a spot rather than a never been done trick on a stair set / ledge.
You can be a "creative" park builder with CAP, it doesnt mean you ll be a creative skater.

as always nothing is black or white... there are multiple shades... and i m still excited when i watch tno cap videos because the dude got the perfect mindset imo...same for manolo.
I just watched a very good documentary about skateboarding in europe (with some comparison with US skateboarding)... Mainly because of the specific architecture here, european skateboarders are kinda more about adapting to the environment and finding weird ways to hit spots. America is made of skateboarding spots, concrete and shit, and its more about bangers down those spots.
At the same time, there are exceptions... guys like Pontus alv...he s all about redefining the urban environment / architecture. And see Richie Jackson hes all about the weirdest ways to hit spots...

[EternalRewind]

No one disagrees that apart of skating is finding spots but saying making spots to skate in s3 or real life isnt as creative is like saying f u your skating sucks..And Im sure thats how you fell about it because your saying theres no creativity in it..

Not trying to be a dick but some of you dont even skate in real life... And your tellin me what skateboarding is and whats creative...

[LanceForLife]

video killed the radio star

/thread

[Slamooh]

But what is creativity ?
i think everyone got his own definition. And nobody can say "my creativity is better than yours"...
eternal, i sometimes have trouble to express my feelings as english is not my native language... as a result it can be slightly different from what i really have in mind. What i mean is : i m more sensitive about spots and ways to hit spots rather than tricks. but everyone is free to feel different. theres no judgement.

how many daewon song / rodney mullen in the scene ? Those guys would make lie anyone talking about creativity. They are aliens

[EternalRewind]

Its cool Slamooh.. Its kind of offending saying CAP isnt creative...

And instead of editing your post/ adding to the end after you read my last post, it would be nice if you keep it after my last post

[Slamooh]

sorry i wanted to change some sentences because it seemed it wasn't well explained and kinda offensive for no reason. my bad
skateboarding is kinda like art (well i would say it is art) so subjectivity is full on.
and i don't mean CAP isn't creative. I'm just not "feeling" it... it doesn't mean people building CAP are wasting their time and i'm not saying there's no creativity involved in it. Its just i dont see many CAP that make me go "damn, this is clever, well thought or challenging for skateboarding", many CAP are standard skateparks despite this tool's endless possibilities.

[jerr bear]

Slammy basically summed it up for me hah, thanks for that - I find it hard to explain how I feel about this.

About Song and Mullen, I feel that their ability and skill made the 'spots' they created so... amazing.

For instance the picnic table train;

The thing that made the clip so special is that Mullen was able to pull that manny off, not that he was able to align the tables like that. They're so exceptional they can adapt the environment to them and make the clip completely refreshing.

But the thing is, Skate 3 is a video-game. The actual tricks you do barely have value (to me, how difficult they may be), it's the mindset that makes the clip.

Maybe it's just that;

-When you're in CAP-mode, you know you can land tricks down the spots you made.
-You can adjust anything with ease
-When you align picnic tables like mullen did IRL, you've only done 10% of the job while in Skate 3 it seems to be 90%.


That's why I find it way more creative to see what an individual can do at locations that are open for everyone.

About what Linny said about the movables in Skate 2, I think it's all a matter of the way you use it. As far as I know they helped me reach certain spots and height to do certain tricks, speaking of which, so did Linny:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCoJfVSwah4&t=193
Skip to 3:13

In this clip Linny hid a dumpster so he could trick over the hedge, basically deceiving the viewers.

[thesignguy]

I agree and thats partly why i dont like CAP
Skateboarding doesnt seem to be about building your spot imo... its about finding a spot and interesting ways to hit it...everyone can hit a rail or a stairset in this game... its weak to do it imo... people keep on doing it though over and over
Since the beginning skateboarding has always been about finding and adapting to spots (see how empty pools made bowl riding), finding the trick (+filming) that goes perfectly with the spot ...
adapting the environment to your fake skating can be considered as laziness

I don't agree with this, depending on which era of skateboarding you came from. After they found pools what came next? Building the perfect transition to achieve what they wanted. Before h-street there was a entire decade of 100% created vert and mini ramps. I really don't understand anyone's logic to say CAP is "lazy" or "not creative" it's what the person does on any spot, created by them, an architect, a game developer, or some dude that made a CAP that makes something creative plain n simple

[Stevland]

I agree with the french bloke.

I can see why people like CAP, simply because it gives them new things to skate. For me personally it's not that interesting. When I watch a PC video I can relate to the spots and the difficulty/creativity.
When I watch a CAP video I have no idea about the spots. Yes, that rail may be a bitch to hit, but I don't know that and I'll probably never find out. I still watch the videos and I enjoy the CAPs and the skating, but it's no comparison to a PC video.
And the horrible framerate of CAPs only adds up to that.

[Slamooh]

sign guy, when im talking about pools / bowls, im talking about the opportunity given by dryness... skateboarders took that opportunity and they were like "look at this empty pool, i'm pretty sure we can ride it even if it's not made for"... like skateboarders take opportunities in the street. its not the same opportunity at all when you go to a skatepark to ride perfectly shaped transitions. transitions are made for skateboarding, street isnt. and you're right, after that dryness thing, it was all about the best transition... at the same time, street skateboarding started to evolve too.
but i've always thought skateboarding is about hitting something that is not meant for (that's certainly why i dont like transition... or is it the other way around ? i don't know...)

its pretty hard to explain to be honest. i definitely agree with jerrel and stev.
as steve says, I can relate to the spots and the difficulty/creativity in a PC video. not everyone in the community is obsessed about difficulty...i am.

maybe its a wrong idea to mix rl and fakeskatebaording ...

[thesignguy]

I totally understand what you are saying. But I don't think it's creativity that is a basis for your argument. All you guys are just stating you side on weather you like cap street skating skate parks or vert. I just don't really see how that has anything to do with creativity but more with personal preference. I totally understand what stevland is saying about hitting a spot that's created, not knowing or understanding the difficulty of it. This comes to play certainly with filming. Sometimes the best angle kills all credibility of difficulty. But the viewers interpretation doesn't have anything to do with creativity. If the title of this thread was "any cap clip kills my viewing enjoyment" then I might be more on your side.

[Slamooh]

i don't see many opportunities in CAPS, standard ledges rails and stuff. sometimes parks are kinda twisted and i love it (vp, tno, ...) but most of the time its kinda bland, like a skatepark. even if you try hard, you dont have opportunities to get creative.
and i think it has something to do with builders creativity.

[pawnluvguitarist]

"CAP killed creativity" is just too broad of a statement.

There are people that were never creative and use the CAP parks as a crutch to just have new places to do the same old uncreative tricks.

At the other end of the spectrum there are the guys that have always been creative, and CAP doesn't take away from their creativity it's just another outlet, another tool.

It also comes down to the parks as well, personally I almost only skate SGs parks and the CAP Faction parks because they are either really creative parks, or so organic that they feel like an actual city, still tonnes of non obvious stuff to look for.

[rzrfvr]

i don't see many opportunities in CAPS, standard ledges rails and stuff. sometimes parks are kinda twisted and i love it (vp, tno, ...) but most of the time its kinda bland, like a skatepark. even if you try hard, you dont have opportunities to get creative.
and i think it has something to do with builders creativity.

That has everything to do with the builder. Creativity is being able to do things with stuff that weren't meant for it. That is more or less the definition of skateboarding.

I'm totally convinced that if we had more pieces to choose from in CAP we wouldn't have come as far as we have in creating interesting stuff. Now, you start with an idea and you have to look for pieces that could work when put together to form something completely different.

I have never built a CAP which looks and feels like a skate park. I don't think any of the other guys on CAP Faction really have either. The parts in CAP suggest that the pieces should be used to create stuff that looks like a skate park which is why for me it is really a creative exercise for me to try and build something else.

For me the point of not knowing if a spot is hard to hit or not is kind of moot. It doesn't even apply to real life skate videos because most people haven't skated any of the spots. I guess personally, skating (in game or in real life) is about expression, not competition.

[knexzor]

I agree with the french bloke.

I can see why people like CAP, simply because it gives them new things to skate. For me personally it's not that interesting. When I watch a PC video I can relate to the spots and the difficulty/creativity.
When I watch a CAP video I have no idea about the spots. Yes, that rail may be a bitch to hit, but I don't know that and I'll probably never find out. I still watch the videos and I enjoy the CAPs and the skating, but it's no comparison to a PC video.
And the horrible framerate of CAPs only adds up to that.
Bold sums up my views.
I might also add that most PC spots have the same 'I don't know how hard that was'-factor, atleast to me.
Spots in general don't have the same impact on me as it did in OG/s2, perhaps because everything feels optimized to be easy-to-hit in skate 3.


After they found pools what came next? Building the perfect transition to achieve what they wanted.
Previously mentioned Pontus Alv actually does the exact opposite, he designed one of the parks here in Malmö and it has all the small, tight and quirky transitions you could wish for. Really hard to skate but really fun.

[Ohmidineffect]

Agreed, I'm not gunna lie CAP parks for the most part puts a limit on how awesome you can skate, how ever not EVERYONE builds skate parks alot of us build cities for you to skate with custom buildings etc. these things make for beautiful natural ledges and gaps that sometimes we aren't even aware of. I think the best part about C.A.P. is skating other peoples things in ways that they didn't think to skate it. I rarely skate my own stuff unless it's for a promo or online with friends because I know the tricks I had in mind when I built it, I find it more fun to watch what people think of and film. I'm more offended that people are blaming it for the demise of creativity, because when I saw that you can build ANYTHING so long as you think creatively I was beyond stoked, a part of me gets bummed when I see people saying this sort of thing.

[Stevland]

For me the point of not knowing if a spot is hard to hit or not is kind of moot. It doesn't even apply to real life skate videos because most people haven't skated any of the spots. I guess personally, skating (in game or in real life) is about expression, not competition.

like slammy said: "maybe its a wrong idea to mix rl and fakeskatebaording ... "

and it is. most enders in videos are a matter of first try in skate. but that's another discussion.

[Duce NLS]

I agree with Rzrfvr about this in relation to RL skate videos, you haven't skated them in RL but appreciate them for what they are surely?

Regards CAP, I'm a CAP fiend myself, but I see it from an angle that (unless I missed something) no one has made too much point of...

Most of the spots in PC are fairly generic, unlike RL where there is unlimited outside factors affecting spots and their skateability, PC is a manufactured city, most of the quirks/unique spots/lines wouldn't have been provided in game, whereas to me, in CAP, I can make all the little quirks and let people find them, in the cases of some of the boys i.e. Mathiys, they often find lines I didn't even realise I'd made.

The problem, personally for me as a bit of a "park nazi" is that A LOT of parks, even well respected ones consist of variously styled stairs/rails and pretty generic lines, just made to look different, the spots aren't that creative themselves. Obviously there are also exceptions to this but that to me is why I end up skating some CAPs alot and most end up touched once and left/deleted.

Just my 2 cents.

Peace

[thesignguy]

I have only used CAP for creative purposes, and to achieve angles that help with a certain trick. I have never had a generic spot in any of my parks. The down side of that is its hard to get a good look to the park. My parks look like no other parks but they also don't look like anything real either. If I film at a park (only ever at my parks) I only try things not possible in any in game spots. I constantly tweek a object to aid in a angle or distance, that isn't possible with a ingame city, your stuck with what you got. I don't think that isn't creative if you achieve something that hasn't been done. I have heard a lot that my style isn't like anyone's style. So maybe CAP lends itself more to me than others.

This video is a good overall view of my second park, but not a real good feel for how I usually skate it.
http://vimeo.com/14961462

[emericaridr11]

man you guys will find anything to bitch about huh?

dont like them dont play them, that simple.... DURH!

[Demzilla]

after making your point of HOW youd like to play the game...

theres a whole other factor as to..
what i want to show off...
or..
how i want to be represented...

im sure everyone here gets interesting tricks all the time..
to film and showcase them is a whole other story...

some kids just wanna jam out with awesome lines...
some have mini bonks and wallies..
some are all handrails...
thats the nature of skateing...

nobody is bitching about anything..
slam jerr sg don everyone..
has grown up with skateboarding in a different way..

i only agree with jerry bear because i like to watch those videos...
and i like to perform the tricks in the game...
to me..
its just not something i want to film and showcase...


and if i did..
those in that genre might consider it insulting to try to reign on there territory...

niggas get mad butthurt in fake skate...

[jerr bear]

man you guys will find anything to bitch about huh?

dont like them dont play them, that simple.... DURH!

If you don't like this thread
don't bother commenting.
Don't be a hypocrit by bitching here...

@Signguy
I think what Demz said earlier applies here (about breaking the engine).

It's not that I wanna find another hole in the system, but I do miss that mentality. When some people can't accomplish something in PC, they tend to turn to CAP.
Not saying that's a bad thing, it just disappoints me video-wise.

It's like, when I look for a certain spot IRL (Yes I actually skate IRL), I'll keep looking because I have no choice - then again I'm not very talented on a board so the spots I look for tend to be rather plain and easy to find - I still wish more people thought that way in S3.

Like when I landed my second fs bigspin and I wanted to find a hip-ish spot / transfer to do that trick on, I settled with this:
http://www.almere.nl/mmbase/images/1677652/JPG

Shame I lost every little trick I've ever learned and only land em 1/50

[thesignguy]

expressing ones opinion isn't bitching (and I don't even think you are referring to me)
this aint EA.... DURH!
most of us are grown men and I consider some of the people I am disagreeing with friends

edit:this was meant to be about 2 or 3 posts up

[jerr bear]

niggas get mad butthurt in fake skate...

I guess I finally found my signature haha

[Demzilla]

its weird emerica said that cause i havnt been active here because ive been out skateing...
my knees hurt every day....
my body is hella old...


@jerry bear...

"When some people can't accomplish something in PC, they tend to turn to CAP."

you are...
x100000000000 right here sir....

you read me like an open book...

[thesignguy]

yeah I totally get all of your gripes, I'm not upset or anything, just wanting to understand where you guys are coming from, which surprisingly seems the majority. And as stupid as it sounds I have always (whether right or wrong) tried to stick up for the game because I know I will miss it and everything that comes with it when it is gone.

[emericaridr11]

:p haha Yall funny

[Demzilla]

theres a few tricks i wanted this past week..
just for the sake of being able to do them..
pc refused to let me do them..
onanything..
wasted too many hours on attempts...

went to cap..
did everything i wanted in a nice 4 hour session..
deleted the park.....

yeah its cheating...
but at least im not stuck in pc for another 2 weeks trying to find that one spot that lets me do this the way i want...

and on a side note...
most cap vids are pretty cut and dry...
mine included...
everyone builds spots but the mindset is still pretty ledge/rail/gap traditional...

[Permy]

Almost unlimited layers killed creativity in the gc

don't care
as long as people can make them look how they want
the only problem i have with the unlimited layers is that I hate having the graphic look just slightly off
lolperfection
fuck gc


oh and slamooh
what the fuck
GET ON XBOX FAGGOT

[jerr bear]

Feels like CAP was their excuse for a crappy city

[NotedDerk]

this thread reminds me of the one innout made about the object dropper making things less creative.

[Ohmidineffect]

It deff is Jerr, hahah.
I skate in real life as well or well I used to before I lost everything I learned CAP gives me the opportunity to build spots I've wanted to skate in real life and in videos and shred them like a god. All in all I agree with alot of your statements but I disagree with the focal point which is that C.A.P killed creativity.

On a different note its refreshing to see people say niggas openly hahaha I felt like people would refuse to say it.

[Antwan]

What's wrong with the city..
get real.
The city became bad when your perspective changed
get in that mindset.
I was never really into create a park to begin with..
it was neat but it's time consuming..
and then to think of tricks on the thing I spent hours on
is unreal for someone who likes to put things out often
well I skate things different too so.. 2 cents.

[jerr bear]

I don't even get what you're trying to say.

When did my perspective change? Did my perspective change?

[Antwan]

I didn't use your name Jerr?
"Your" meaning Anyone who sees skate 3 for what it isn't rather than what it is
is no longer in the OG mindset.. spot finding and enjoying it for what it is.
Every version of skate has flaws but we're still playing them senseless.
Skate the city or don't, I guess I'm saying..
So many discussions leading back to how unrealistic sized things are in the city
or whatever your excuse is
it's bullshit..
Spots for days.
Get good.

[jest118]

I agree and thats partly why i dont like CAP
Skateboarding doesnt seem to be about building your spot imo... its about finding a spot and interesting ways to hit it...everyone can hit a rail or a stairset in this game... its weak to do it imo... people keep on doing it though over and over
Since the beginning skateboarding has always been about finding and adapting to spots (see how empty pools made bowl riding), finding the trick (+filming) that goes perfectly with the spot ...
adapting the environment to your fake skating can be considered as laziness
thats why i loved filming for PTC ... go to "insert location" and film... Constraint makes you be creative and think different
And i m way more excited by a creative way to hit a spot rather than a never been done trick on a stair set / ledge.
You can be a "creative" park builder with CAP, it doesnt mean you ll be a creative skater.

as always nothing is black or white... there are multiple shades... and i m still excited when i watch tno cap videos because the dude got the perfect mindset imo...same for manolo.
I just watched a very good documentary about skateboarding in europe (with some comparison with US skateboarding)... Mainly because of the specific architecture here, european skateboarders are kinda more about adapting to the environment and finding weird ways to hit spots. America is made of skateboarding spots, concrete and shit, and its more about bangers down those spots.
At the same time, there are exceptions... guys like Pontus alv...he s all about redefining the urban environment / architecture. And see Richie Jackson hes all about the weirdest ways to hit spots...

I disagree with everything you said here. Skateboarding is different for everyone. For a guy like Vallely.. it's about Self Expression. For a guy like P Rod, it's a Career that he enjoys. For hundreds of skaters who stay "flow" for their entire careers.. it's a way of life and for thousands of kids everywhere.. it's just something they love doing after school. There is no one purpose for skateboarding.

As for the difference between US and European skating.. you've got things a bit twisted. The US is not filled with spots though the quality of spots tends to be better. The reason VIDEOS have developed the way they have is because of the extreme lack of spots and the difficulty in good footage. If I see a trick down Wilshire 15 it's not just the height, landing and street that the skater had to contend with.. it's the security as well. If I see a line at DWP I know that line had to have been landed first or second try after the skater and filmer snuck over the bridge, past the Police Officers.


I agree with the french bloke.

I can see why people like CAP, simply because it gives them new things to skate. For me personally it's not that interesting. When I watch a PC video I can relate to the spots and the difficulty/creativity.
When I watch a CAP video I have no idea about the spots. Yes, that rail may be a bitch to hit, but I don't know that and I'll probably never find out. I still watch the videos and I enjoy the CAPs and the skating, but it's no comparison to a PC video.
And the horrible framerate of CAPs only adds up to that.

Just because the spot is in PC doesn't mean you'll know how difficult the trick was. Especially with the artistic camera angles and quick cuts. Likewise the creation of UG's in CAP lets you know exactly how difficult footage was to get.



I totally understand what you are saying. But I don't think it's creativity that is a basis for your argument. All you guys are just stating you side on weather you like cap street skating skate parks or vert. I just don't really see how that has anything to do with creativity but more with personal preference. I totally understand what stevland is saying about hitting a spot that's created, not knowing or understanding the difficulty of it. This comes to play certainly with filming. Sometimes the best angle kills all credibility of difficulty. But the viewers interpretation doesn't have anything to do with creativity. If the title of this thread was "any cap clip kills my viewing enjoyment" then I might be more on your side.

Pretty spot on here.


i don't see many opportunities in CAPS, standard ledges rails and stuff. sometimes parks are kinda twisted and i love it (vp, tno, ...) but most of the time its kinda bland, like a skatepark. even if you try hard, you dont have opportunities to get creative.
and i think it has something to do with builders creativity.

Yes and no. The parks are no different than PC in that there's very obvious ways to skate them and there are not so obvious ways. If a player can find unintended ways to skate PC why is it so hard to believe that they can't do the same in CAP?


its weird emerica said that cause i havnt been active here because ive been out skateing...
my knees hurt every day....
my body is hella old...


@jerry bear...

"When some people can't accomplish something in PC, they tend to turn to CAP."

you are...
x100000000000 right here sir....

you read me like an open book...

Yup.. like when you can't find the right type of UG's you're looking for.. so you make a UG park in CAP.

[jerr bear]

The city became bad when your perspective changed


I think the city became really bad in comparison to SV and NSV.
Which is why I asked those questions.
+ I'm the OP.

You do the math.

[Demzilla]

hip hop was long dead before soja boi...


note...

jery bear..
im filming all of my bullshit just for you...
lil min edit soonish...

[old-skooler-34]

This is why I don't like making 'skate parks" and only build cities, towns, and plaza style parks in CAP. It's also why when asked for advice I say "design a real life area first! keep skating it in the back of your mind"....

Nothing can kill creativity, it can only dwindle from within.

[pawnluvguitarist]

This is why I don't like making 'skate parks" and only build cities, towns, and plaza style parks in CAP. It's also why when asked for advice I say "design a real life area first! keep skating it in the back of your mind"....

Nothing can kill creativity, it can only dwindle from within.

That's why I love your parks man, it's the attention to detail, more built to be aesthetically pleasing and authentic looking. Like you said, not necessarily built for skating. Let the skaters worry about the skating.

[FullyFl4RED00]

Haha you know what guys I like debating on stuff like this its a good time :)
so I see the situation we have in the following way:
1. As someone said earlier(can't look back to see who cause im on phone) cap is another "outlet" for creativity. This statement is not really logically deniable due to the nature of cap itself. It is a creative tool...to put it metaphorically cap is like a canvas and painting equipment. It is used to create and is therefore a creative outlet. We input creativity, skill, and action into cap...the game processes our input and manifest it into a tangible thing, a piece of art in many cases.
2. Cap building, skating, and filming is a different but connected creative outlet to filming and skating in PC.
3. Here at fluckit we have mostly similar goals. We try to make this game like real skateboarding. That means tricks, filming, etc. And we can achieve these goals through both PC and CAP. Due to the small population that still plays this game the introduction of a thing like cap to the community has resulted in a shift...a paradigm shift! By this I mean people now film videos in both pc and cap and for different reasons. Naturally some people have developed preferences/biases towards one outlet over another because they arguably have different things to offer...and as a result you see the effect clearly in our videos because of our size. So from the perspective of Jerr, creativity has been killed because he prefers looking for spots in pc and trying to make old spots look new and skate things differently than everyone else. He doesn't see this type of creativity as often and that is what he prefers...so as a whole he sees a decline in creativity. But from the perspective of someone like me, who enjoys building and filming at caps, there seems to be increasing levels of creativity and skill appearing. Creativity by definition is not declining it just has different types and outlets. One outlet may become more popular than another but the outlet itself is still there so creativity of that type can still be produced. I like turtles

[emericaridr11]

seems like your looking for the Skate 1 Skate 2 experience still...

[Demzilla]

YOUR MISSING THE POINT....

jerry bear isnt asking if cap killed the creativity of the community....

that would be impossible and jerry bear knows this...

what hes asking is..
has the create a park hindered the communities mindset when it comes to thinking outside the box on regular/bland spots...

[jest118]

YOUR MISSING THE POINT....

jerry bear isnt asking if cap killed the creativity of the community....

that would be impossible and jerry bear knows this...

what hes asking is..
has the create a park hindered the communities mindset when it comes to thinking outside the box on regular/bland spots...

I think it just plateau'd early. I mean.. it has to be recognized that by the time Skate 3 came out.. people weren't looking to skate anything in a "normal" way. The Community that tries to push the physics, skate the unskateable, and hit things from odd angles, in odd ways had already grown through Skate 1 and 2. So you didn't have that incubation period where no one was doing it. People were pushing it from day 1 with S3. So until someone finds another way to "break" the physics or another NEW version of stuff that tweaks trick animations the vast majority of things is abd at this point.

As ridiculous as the whole abd concept is.. no one wants to blatantly bite someone else's tricks.. so what's really left? This is a part of the reason that I skate without concern for physics breaking, animation tweaking, and all that. It's a ton of extra effort just to end up being like a dozen other people and I, personally, don't find it fun or all that rewarding. I prefer skating in a way that I find aesthetically appealing. It's not difficult at all and the camera angles aren't mindblowing or super creative like a Habitat (the board company) video but I like it and at the end of the day that's what's it's about. Each individual person finding fun in it.

[Jack]

Heated discussion here. I think my goals or my standards for my own fake skating have always been a bit more cavalier. I agree that skating is an art. When Andy Warhol painted the Campbell Soup Can on a 4 story canvass that was art. When I grab a can of Campbell's Soup that is not art. The difference is in the intention of the creator. Campbell's Soup wants you to eat soup. Warhol wanted you to think about Pop culture in a brand new way. If we take this analogy and move it to skateboarding we can quickly come up with an analog. Gino Iannucci is one of the very first skaters to throw a switch kickflip down a set of stairs and make it look good. He made it look almost better than skating regular. People were tripping the fuck out because they either could not do switch flips or it took them 500 tries to do switch flips and when they landed them there was toe drag and hell drag, and their knees buckled and their arms flailed and they were covered in dirt and sweat from the first 499 bails. Now, PRod has flawless looking switch flips that only take a few tries but they will never be better than Gino's because PRod is an un-ironic Campbell's soup can; by which I mean dude has pop sponsors on every single piece of his clothing; he doesn't dress himself Mountain Dew dresses him. Let's take another step back and apply this to the City and Cap and Skate 3 and intended style all in the context of art. If tno builds a beautiful rainbow colored park with a monster rail to bank that you can't roll away from unless you perfectly roll away on a stop sign sunk into the transition at the bottom of the bank that is mother fucking art because that spot does not exist anywhere else other than tno's brain. Mountain Dew doesn't dress tno's brain, tno dresses his brain with white butcher coats and mad scientist goggles. If Skatehead builds a beautiful white hubba to brick wall that is almost impossible to land a 5-0 on and then Demzilla pulls a tweaked noseblunt with a stylish ride away that seems to ignore the wall, the tight landing, the crooked run up then that is Mother Fucking Art. Even if I spend two weeks trying to get a fakie frontside blunt inward heel popless with a clean roll away I know that I'm just biting Demzilla's already flawless trick on Skatehead's wildly inventive White Rabbit Hubba. I'm still putting that shit in as my ender because it took me two weeks, but it's art layered on top of art imitating art and you better know that I'm not letting Mountain Dew tell me what kind of socks I'm wearing.

[old-skooler-34]

YOUR MISSING THE POINT....

jerry bear isnt asking if cap killed the creativity of the community....

that would be impossible and jerry bear knows this...

what hes asking is..
has the create a park hindered the communities mindset when it comes to thinking outside the box on regular/bland spots...

He really should of put that in his first post!

The question is still kinda silly though. If someone is a creative outside the box type skater no matter where they are they're going to look for something creative to do. Even if someone just built a park with 1 ledge in it creativity will happen. I can't imagine someone who's creative becoming less creative because they're in or built a CAP.

[Mark the Sith]

I'm still finding new ways to hit spots in PC, maybe y'all aren't looking hard enough?
CAP is what it is, an outlet for different expression. It's watercolours to PCs' marble sculpture, different but still amazing.

[Antwan]

Either way you get to the point so often that it can't be sharpened any more..
one short dull pencil with plenty of paper..
in other's perspective anyway
I use multiple pens, cause I'm badass.

Responding to what I said won't change it though
if you use create a park and avoid the city
For whatever reason
you're just being lazy.

Ungrindables? Eh
maybe people don't know but there is a way to make grindables ungrindable while doing an ollie in on skate 3..
Finding it pretty fun.
Maybe you need to start destroying the game again friends..
I find something new with the engine almost every other day.

[MarcoPoloUSN]

Responding to what I said won't change it though
if you use create a park and avoid the city
For whatever reason
you're just being lazy.

What do you mean by this? In terms of making videos that makes you lazy?

I mean if the video is purposefully for CAP, then no, that comment is irrelevant. But making solos with unique spots is a different story. I agree that CAP can take the creativity and authenticity away from a solo. To me a solo is about finding spots in the actual city... maybe finding tweaks in the engine too. I make sure that my solos are strictly PC.

Btw... CAPs take a lot of time and effort. I enjoy CAPs that take a lot of work to make. I'd appreciate that.

[Demzilla]

wasnt directed at you Fully....

[FullyFl4RED00]

haha dude my bad demzilla I got carried away and i had just woken up. ;)

[BeatChemist]

Even if I spend two weeks trying to get a fakie frontside blunt inward heel popless with a clean roll away I know that I'm just biting Demzilla's already flawless trick on Skatehead's wildly inventive White Rabbit Hubba. I'm still putting that shit in as my ender because it took me two weeks, but it's art layered on top of art imitating art and you better know that I'm not letting Mountain Dew tell me what kind of socks I'm wearing.

hahahah I randomly lurked this thread and had to comment on Jack's post. Dude you are fucking hilarious.

Also. I am fucking stoked to see that people are still into skate enough to carry on arguments about it.

I tend to think about my fakeskating the way Jest does... I'm just looking to have fun and make things aesthetically pleasing. Difficulty isn't of high importance to me, but I respect those who make it their ultimate goal. So I don't feel bad about using a CAP to film a trick. Because if I think it looks good, I'm going to film it. It's that simple to me. I don't get too caught up in much else. Maybe that's why not many people watch my vids, but really... who cares?

I think saying that CAP kills creativity is a bit of a stretch. It changed it, for sure. For the better or worse? That's way too subjective.

[jest118]

Difficulty isn't of high importance to me, but I respect those who make it their ultimate goal. So I don't feel bad about using a CAP to film a trick. Because if I think it looks good, I'm going to film it. It's that simple to me. I don't get too caught up in much else. Maybe that's why not many people watch my vids, but really... who cares?

That is my exact mindset. And you expressed it way better than I did so kudos and thanks for that!

[Antwan]

Marco I was just adding to my other post..
Someone thinks PC Is badly sized so they go and make create a parks all day
rather than thinking a little differently
I'll just keep out of this one as it's so hard to grasp what I'm saying.

[Demzilla]

yes i deleted a bunch of shit...

[MarcoPoloUSN]

Marco I was just adding to my other post..
Someone thinks PC Is badly sized so they go and make create a parks all day
rather than thinking a little differently
I'll just keep out of this one as it's so hard to grasp what I'm saying.

its fine man. you make strong points most of the time... and its over looked... unfortunately ...

i did understand you with that comment though. now i do. sort of.

[jest118]

Jest, sorry to offend you. It was kind of a rant. Prod has skills, but if you're asking me who has the better switch flip then I'm going with Gino every single time. Art is also subjective. And the point I was making does pan out. If I stenciled a mountain dew logo onto the Mona Lisa how do you think that would effect the quality of the art? PRod's skill are obviously otherworldly and I myself have never landed a remotely good looking switch flip and I never will.

I feel that America is a culture in decay. Money is more important than beauty. We waste our resources wantonly. Corporations brand us as children. My daughter has over a hundred advertising jingles memorized and I have hundreds if not thousands memorized. I can tell the difference between a Audi and VW at 100 yards, and it's no accident. Advertising is propaganda. Propaganda is purely aimed at manufacturing consent. We think we're free, but we are not. Tomorrow, try to live for an entire week without buying something made by a corporation. Look in your closet see if you have a single article of clothing without any labels on it. Try to go for an entire week without eating any food that you see in a television commercial. It's impossible.

I shouldn't get down on PRod; he's just as much a consumer as anyone else. If you see him tell him I'm sorry that I used him as an example to prove a larger point about art and how it should remain pure; untainted by corporate branding.

I'm going to keep my opinion out of this thread from this point on. I'll just lurk it. Peace.

Your preference of Switch Flips doesn't bother me at all.

Your feelings about Corporate Branding have nothing to do with what you said about P Rod though. Mountain Dew tells him what to wear? I mean really come on dude. In a Profession where those with the most buying power could careless about supporting the Professionals.. how exactly are these guys supposed to do what they do? And if P Rod (or any other Pro for that matter) blows his ACL.. how's he going to support his family? At the end of the day you can feel however you want about Corporate Sponsorship.. but to think that they have any degree of control over the people they sponsor aside from public appearances and advertising, then you're completely mistaken.

The man took his Corporate Money and Sponsors and created two skate plaza's in some of the most High-Risk Neighborhoods in Los Angeles. When he opened his shop Primitive, he employed homies that looked out for him and helped him in his career coming up, to run it. When one of his best friends, Dan Abadi, got broke off so bad he was shook from skating for years (he was AM at the time of the injury) Paul hired him as an Assistant so he could still make a living being around something he loved. When he started to blow up and had access to well known big name filmers and photographers, he still went to his homies for his footage and photos.. allowing those homies like Dario Rezk, Nigel Alexander, and Hermie Jimenez to create careers for themselves. On top of that.. he's just a cool guy. Always friendly. Always humble.

You're free to post your opinion about the topic all you want. You shouldn't be concerned about that. However you have to understand that your example really had very little to do with the topic in addition to being very insulting about someone that you really don't know about enough to make statements like that. It just so happens that someone on this board does know that man and was offended by your statements. Something to consider.

[BeatChemist]

Marco I was just adding to my other post..
Someone thinks PC Is badly sized so they go and make create a parks all day
rather than thinking a little differently
I'll just keep out of this one as it's so hard to grasp what I'm saying.

No I definitely understand you Antwan. It has changed the way people try to find and hit new spots in the city. That is for sure. And for the people who really approached the game from that angle, I can see how the addition of CAP has meant that, because some people choose to create spots, less people are hunting spots and appreciating the spot hunters.
I also understand the complaints about how most CAP are still just rails/banks/ledges/minis on repeat.

[Demzilla]

jest...

"but to think that they have any degree of control over the people they sponsor aside from public appearances and advertising, then you're completely mistaken"

dude..
with the word "aside" you just agreed...
thats exactly what jack is talking about....

more importantly....
your opinion isnt gonna change jacks...
jacks opinion isnt gonna change yours...

get off it...





to everyone bitching back and forth like this is some pissing contest....

its an opinion...
everyone has one...
to pull your dick out and act like yours is bigger or better than someone elses its stupid ignorant is frankly quite childish...

have a conversation...
ask question....
put your dicks back in your pants....



im sick of this shit on fluckit...

[jest118]

jest...

"but to think that they have any degree of control over the people they sponsor aside from public appearances and advertising, then you're completely mistaken"

dude..
with the word "aside" you just agreed...
thats exactly what jack is talking about....

There's a huge difference between being in a Commercial or showing up for an autograph signing and "Being told what socks to put on every morning."

Otherwise, everyone everywhere who has a job is guilty of the same thing.. are they not? Yet no one talks about the average working man in a negative light for going where his boss tells him to go. Fufilling the obligations set forth by his job.

Furthermore I'm not trying to change his opinion. I just told him that his impression of that specific person is wrong and to consider that these are real people who have real friends. And I do not feel like I'm in the wrong for defending my friend anymore than you feel in the wrong for "defending fluckit."

[Skatehead]

Iplayuno.

[mamba12]

it's got nothing to do with creativity. if you only skate pc the game will get old eventually. no matter how many times you find a new spot, or a different way to skate it, you will be overlapping at some point. which isn't a bad thing, shit, look at how many times hollywood high and carlsbad have been in rl videos. they're fun spots to skate.

but with cap, the game should last forever. even when you can't share any more, you can still make your own shit.

just play the god damn game and stop arguing.

[jerr bear]

Who's arguing?

[MarcoPoloUSN]

looks like a good conversation rather than arguing.

I agree with Mamba... its that simple. Without CAP the game would get old faster.

[EternalRewind]

Only thing killing creatively is PC

[Jack]

Jest - You're right about Paul Rodriguez the man. You know him much better than I do. I respect you for sticking up for your friend.

I also feel a little ashamed for shit talking about someone I don't know.

My opinion of America, and art, and wanton commercialism stands, but I should have made it about Mountain Dew the company not the people who are sponsored by them.

Paul Rodriguez, if there is even the smallest chance that you read this post, I'm sorry I dissed you.

[heshfield]

Only thing killing creatively is PC

yeah lets not forget who the real culprit is. CAP didnt do nothin to you; shitty level design did.

[jest118]

Jest - You're right about Paul Rodriguez the man. You know him much better than I do. I respect you for sticking up for your friend.

I also feel a little ashamed for shit talking about someone I don't know.

My opinion of America, and art, and wanton commercialism stands, but I should have made it about Mountain Dew the company not the people who are sponsored by them.

Paul Rodriguez, if there is even the smallest chance that you read this post, I'm sorry I dissed you.

I appreciate the apology. And I appreciate your stance on both Switch Flips and Commercialism. It takes a big man. Respect.

[jerr bear]

Shitty level design made me think even more out of the box..

[Ohmidineffect]

I agree with jerr, here just think to find weird shit that no one skates, like taboo shit that people hate but make it look good. I've been spending a couple days skating just straight carverton and there are plenty of little spots to hit in odd odd ways.

[rzrfvr]

Shitty level design made me think even more out of the box..

Totally agree with this to a point. Some of the design in PC makes it hard to be creative with though...*cough*...30 steps...*cough*...stair...*cough*...sets... I guess the one area which could be explored further is freestyle tricks since there is a lot of dead flat areas in PC. Pawn's done some great things.

[pawnluvguitarist]

Totally agree with this to a point. Some of the design in PC makes it hard to be creative with though...*cough*...30 steps...*cough*...stair...*cough*...sets... I guess the one area which could be explored further is freestyle tricks since there is a lot of dead flat areas in PC. Pawn's done some great things.

Thanks man :)

My upcoming OATS 10 part definitely has a freestyle/flatground focus to it. And you are right, it's still one area where there's still new possibilities

[B4NE1]

my thoughts... create in pc with dropables

http://www.youtube.com/user/IRONMONKEYB4NE1?feature=mhee#p/a/u/1/qiL92O0N0Es

[B4NE1]

i had ppl constantly asking me where i was skating when i had clips up before editing my video.. they were skating all over the place trying to find dumpsters that werent there...

creativity comes from within ones self. not whats on a screen
whether you create caps, skate pc, or create object dropper spots in either cap or pc, you need the drive to do so. not to mention meticulously laying tricks down at these places...

Im sure that not 1 person in the community has "creatively" filmed in 100% of the pc, not to mention the thousands of caps creatively thought up by those minds..

I didnt play skate for like 8-9 months and when I came back, it almost felt like a brand new game.

Mabey a break would do you good Jerr...
Or skate 4 lolz

or take an empty spot and fill the bastard with droppables, and get creative
Example Below

http://www.youtube.com/user/IRONMONKEYB4NE1?feature=mhee#p/a/u/1/qiL92O0N0Es

[jerr bear]

I can find new spots and combinations on a daily basis...............

Don't get me wrong...........

[zodas]

You honestly think wed be better off with just PC and no CAP? CAP saved this game from the grips of PC and its crappiness.

[MarcoPoloUSN]

You honestly think wed be better off with just PC and no CAP? CAP saved this game from the grips of PC and its crappiness.

this. that is all

[rzrfvr]

You honestly think wed be better off with just PC and no CAP? CAP saved this game from the grips of PC and its crappiness.

Yes, definately yes! Edit: In reference to CAP saving this game... That was a bit unclear

Here's a different take on this whole discussion.

In a sense, the object dropper kind of killed parts of PC I think in combination with CAP. I'm strictly talking about for the developers now. When I look at PC I see what a lot of you see: copied spots, too much open space etc.

The reason for this isn't directly that they decided to throw in the object dropper and CAP but the fact that they tried to do it while also building PC. They didn't have the time to build a great city like San Vanelona and also come up with a lot of great objects for CAP.

I have no insight in the development process but my guess is that at least some of the guys who designed the city also did stuff that ended up in CAP and object dropper. And they did it more or less at the same time. In my opinion that resulted in having lots of CAP objects in PC and not the other way around.

In SV and NSV there where a ton of different looking trees and benches that where specific for a certain area. In PC, you can see the same tree in many different places and the same texture in different areas. This is probably not laziness but rather a shortage of time and a mentality that said: CAP and PC share a lot of assets so why not take a CAP-approach when building the city, the players can improve it with the object dropper.

In short: CAP helped kill creativity (for the developers). But deadlines was the real culprit.

[jerr bear]

They did have the time to build a great city

They were just stupid by announcing the game incl. the month they would release it in so early.

[rzrfvr]

They did have the time to build a great city

They were just stupid by announcing the game incl. the month they would release it in so early.

That is hardly a decision taken by the developers.

[jerr bear]

I'm talking both ea and the actual developers.

[oKwiider]

the whole city is a c.a.p...

[robley]

i don't know about killing creativity, but CAP footage looks terrible and i refuse to use it in anything.

[pairsprowlin 666]

i don't know about killing creativity, but CAP footage looks terrible and i refuse to use it in anything.


i agree with this statement, CAP footage is only good for a video at that spot..

[saunders420]

hmm...there are a handful of useful quotes in this thread.

[jerr bear]

i agree with this statement, CAP footage is only good for a video at that spot..

If the edit is legit

And to me it does seem CAP killed many people's ability to create within boundaries, with the boundaries being PC.

---

And don't get me wrong, it's not that I'm anti-cap:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IkGLWHGjko

[momadaddy]

i know im late to the party here but, no it didnt kill anything. if u build objects to cater to a specific trick then sure that makes it easy but on the other hand it takes a load of creativity to build some of these parks. and if anyone thinks that a trick/line isnt creative simply because its in a created park, i offer this witty retort. "YOUR MOM". some one once said to me " its not about the spot you skate., its about how you skate the spot." lulz. i think that applies to CAP as well. thats my 2 cents. take it what it is.

[HorseHead]

I'm late to the party. CAP isn't killing creativity. It's just creating a different kind of creativity. Making an environment that looks and feels real with the (broken) tools you're given is comparable to the same creativity that brought about popless and all of the other little tricks that people use to make their clips look great. I've made a few CAP's (not very good ones) and the fun is in making them. I hardly ever skate CAP's and I've never used a CAP clip in a video and (probably) never will. I think they're two separate things, both made to entertain someone with a skateboarding mindset. Who hasn't thought about designing their own park at least once? I don't think that the skating done in CAP is that great for a lot of reasons, one of them being that it will never look like a real city. People have come incredibly close and I applaud their efforts and skills, but it's always just not quite there. I also can't relate to CAP tricks, like people have mentioned. If I've never been there in game how do I know how hard it is? I also can never get the skating through the city feel in CAP, which is what I'm into. I'm not that stoked about setting a session marker and just trying a trick for an hour. I want to start at point A and eventually end up at point B and skate shit in between. In order to make an environment that looks real you're basically dropping the area that you can use down to 7-11 parking lot size. I can't cruise around in that, it's booooorrrriiiing. I have other points but I stopped caring about typing this about 2 sentences in.

Oh and Robley, we all know you skated that curved CAP rail in Megamyth.

[Boris Magee]

this thread is so weird hahahahaha
say if skate 1 and 2 were only flatground
but skate 3 added object dropper. the addition of more options gives us way more ways to express our creativity. and i think we would all be thankful

[agusbmxarg]

i agree with this statement, CAP footage is only good for a video at that spot..
This.


[fanboymodeON]

S3 killed creativity


[/fanboymodeOFF]

[Jebotek]

what hes asking is..
has the create a park hindered the communities mindset when it comes to thinking outside the box on regular/bland spots...

not for me.
that you can build your own cities, doesnt mean that i dont think how i can differently hit that spot, imo.
i love to search things in pc that werent that often done the way i do.
But i also love to sesh in some cap`s and do the same there...

[Deacon]

I think saying CAP killed creativity is very short sighted, but what ever thats your opinion and I respect that.

CAP in itself is creative. It takes time, effort, and imagination to create a environment that looks and feels like a real place. I agree that CAP clips can look very bad on film, however that depends on how you film it and what CAP you are skating. CAP Faction & Pandora to name just two have made some very realistic looking locations with interesting spots that aren't obvious that allow you to find your own way to skate it.

I love PC in general (the old factory area, down town, and the Daly estates etc. and I often find new spots when skating about or find a different way to hit an old spot. However my fav environment to skate is a school ( s1 and s2 had Willow/GED etC) however in S3 the PC college doesn't have that feel. I know I can always go back and play s1 and s2 but I am a sucker for s3 at times.

I'd still play the game without CAP, however after much searching (and also now building) I now have a nice collection of varied and realistic looking schoool locations toskate, and in turn I have added longevity to the game for me.

[robley]

oh and robley, we all know you skated that curved cap rail in megamyth.

.... shut up.

[Antwan]

My whole focus is creativity
STILL going strong my friend
if you haven't seen my videos you might think it's dead
and I'm not even up my ass haha
I watch people's videos with intent to avoid what everyone's doing.
Been doing it for 4 years..
If you let go of the bullshit boundaries you call realism you might learn a few things
that you could even add to your own realistic style..
but have fun yeah.. creativity is in approach
fun is in not caring what they think.

[jerr bear]

Are you saying I'm not being creative within my rather realistic style? I do think I'm innovative for that matter, or at least distinguish myself from others.

And I don't think boundaries are bullshit, they add a sense of challenge to the game.

[m.seven]

And I don't think boundaries are bullshit, they add a sense of challenge to the game.
gotta agree with Jerr on this one,but at the same time i think some of the CAPs out there can be just as challenging as PC.

[Antwan]

Jerr if I wanted to direct something at you I would use your name
That's my opinion and it's directed to anyone not looking at the big picture
in the long run what you consider realistic is based on real life skateboarding
which always changes, someone always pushing the bar
eventually someone is going to make something fake reality so what is the point.
You're going to wait until you see that video to consider trying it in the game..
and you can keep responding to my responses but I will lose interest soon
just as I lose interest in seeing the same flips and grinds in different spots.
Once you go out of your comfort zone is when you're getting creative if you ask me
there's too much realism.

[pairsprowlin 666]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkKJGDgHya4


ahaah

[jerr bear]

You're going to wait until you see that video to consider trying it in the game..


wtf?
That might be how you would approach "realism", but I think most peeps out there don't.
And isn't it obvious I feel approached? Considering my previous post, my style is rather realistic and you know.. I'm the OP after all...

It seems you've already pulled all these conclusions but many don't seem to be true at all.



Prowlin the filming on that last hardflip was GORGEOUSSSSSS

[Antwan]

Here's why I've drawn the conclusion jerr
Let's look at our trick base back in OG and Skate 2
Would you say Wallies and popless tricks were less popular back then?
Actually it's not really a question.. our production value and number of members
has gone up significantly.. less realism because of less members
Which we had our realistic skaters and our fun oats whatever you want to call it skaters
and even then realism as defined by others is never the same..
I'm saying realism and OATS are different.. while OATS can be realistic I think it's more of a fun less confined version of fake skating
Realism as I've seen it in the community was slowly defined, first real stance
eventually popless, perfect lock and now it has expanded a little bit but overall
I hate to see creativity lost because of restriction I know people are more capable and I guess that upsets me
I can draw whatever conclusions I want and no one has to agree
But I've been around for a while, I'm just making sense of it..
Agree or not I think I've made my point and am done responding.

[jerr bear]

I think, that in many cases, creativity wasn't lost because of restrictions, because these restrictions were the drive for some people to choose EA skate over Tony Hawk's ride in the first place.
I also think it's still the drive for many peeps to play.

Like me, I think many kids out there have come up with really new stuff (out of their box too), but simply didn't like the way it looked or had another reason to not use those tricks. But that's a matter of taste and another topic (;

Oh and yeah of course you can draw whatever conclusion you want, of course we don't have to agree.

[pairsprowlin 666]

wtf?
That might be how you would approach "realism", but I think most peeps out there don't.
And isn't it obvious I feel approached? Considering my previous post, my style is rather realistic and you know.. I'm the OP after all...

It seems you've already pulled all these conclusions but many don't seem to be true at all.



Prowlin the filming on that last hardflip was GORGEOUSSSSSS


I'm glad you liked it jerrel

[xxCALM KILLERxx]

..
I'm saying realism and OATS are different.. while OATS can be realistic I think it's more of a fun less confined version of fake skating
.

The fuck is OATS?

[i am a snail]

The fuck is OATS?


http://vimeo.com/25863923

[pawnluvguitarist]

The fuck is OATS?


an Obscure, Abstract, Tech Skating team of some sort...

[i am a snail]

an Obscure, Abstract, Tech Skating team of some sort...

fluckit should allow you to like posts

[xxCALM KILLERxx]

hooray for answers!!