do u think this will start a war :confused: what do u think? i sure hope not
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do u think this will start a war :confused: what do u think? i sure hope not
bin laden is exchangeable, al quida will have a new "head" in no time...
but who will america hunt down now, since the most wanted man on earth is dealt with???
time to declare a new archenemy in persona...
i suggest the head bankers
Pretty much with the death of Osama the only thing that will happen is it will free up a Dialysis Machine.
so the leader's dead..
but we will still be attacked with him dead..
what's the point in this shit.. Honestly?
The point is our dad beat up their dad. duh!Quote:
Originally Posted by Antwan
It's a Morale boost for us and a hit to their ego for one. Remember that they're fighting under the belief system that "God" is on their side and blah blah blah. So losing their leader should be a fairly big blow against them. Of course someone else will just step into the lead position and they'll probably fight doubly hard for awhile but this shows them that we can find them no matter what holes they choose to hide in in Afghanistan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antwan
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/...ead0001_66.jpg
BUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
IN THE FACCCCCEEEE....
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/1961/tazed.gif
he killed almost 3000 of our people, at the very least justice needed to be served, we needed to defend ourselves, and not let those people who died in not only 9/11, but also any other attacks he organized, die in vain. if someone commits the heinous acts that he did, you cant allow them to continue living.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antwan
and not related to antwans post, as much as think this man should have been hung from the top of the top of the washington monument until there was nothing but a skeleton, i do feel like given him the islamic funeral was the right way to do it, because it shows that we are above people like him. it shows that we as a people have dignity and respect for other people, even to those people who have none for others. it demonstrates our view of freedom of religion, that even though this man was a monster, he still has every right to practice any religion he chooses, and that we accept his choice of religion, but not his actions. and honestly that act made me much prouder to be an american
and to lighten the mood after my rant http://chzmemebase.files.wordpress.c...rock-obama.jpg
he killed 3000 americans? if he did, which he didnt, does it justify the bodycount so far in the socalled waronterror in afghanistan, irak etc?
i find it obnocious how americans seem to rejoice in this event.
Fake and gay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demzilla
I killed Colonel Gaddafi last night. I didn't take any pictures and dumped his body at sea, but trust me, I did.
I'm yet to 100% believe this. Some parts seem a bit fishy...
There's closure to families of 3000 innocents killed, and our military can put a feather in their cap for the good that they actually do for our society. Not that our military as a whole deserves it, but every soldier who puts their ass on the line with no say in the matter in my honor deserves some good in their lives in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by bohemian
Beyond that sentiement... Most Americans are the problem with America. Obnoxious, crass, and vulgar... The ways of the US.
I'm sorry so many of us put it so primitively, but I am celebrating justice and the positive points I mentioned earlier... But quietly.
I don't know how accurate that number is.. but the idea is that he's responsible for those deaths, just as Hitler is responsible for the deaths of millions of jews before and during WW2. There's nothing Obnoxious at all about celebrating justice coming to a man who intentionally murdered Civilians because he didn't have the balls to fight his "enemys" Military. He's been behind attacks on several Embassys as well as being connected to the previous World Trade Center Bombing in 1993.Quote:
Originally Posted by bohemian
He was a VERY evil dude who didn't give a shit about anyone who didn't follow him. His forces in Afghanistan raid their own people's villages and kill innocents, then threaten the rest of the village that they'll do the same to them if they don't aid them in hiding weapons and reporting on Foreign Troops.
Now Iraq is a VERY different thing altogether.. but as far as Osama Bin Laden and the war in Afghanistan is concerned, he needed to be stopped and the war was very necessary.
i have no problem with the dude being dead. but your own president is likewise responsible for the deaths of way more than 3000 lives on 911 and the petty numbers alkaida represent, and should be punished the same way.
Ha logic..
I seem to lack it in these arguments because I usually have no interest
but another view
I see death as death
and the fact that the army is based on belief and religion (in god we trust)
makes me see it as a neutral point of insertion
But maybe someone wants to educate me or agree, whatever I'm curious
did the terrorists lead by Osama Bin Laden kill for belief and religion just as the U.S. Army seems to do..
or was it some kind of corrupt conspiracy started by Osama?
I will never say it was not a horrific event, I was scarred as a kid
but what are the other point of views, you know?
It seems everyone ties down thinking to what they know, have learned or is only media based..
maybe I'm slowly becoming a conspiracist but I like to think there's a third perspective..
the one where people think for themselves.
Responsible in what way? Instead of being vague, why not mention specifics?Quote:
Originally Posted by bohemian
The US Military does not operate under any religious views and people of all religions are members of the Military and practice their respective religions freely and openly. Osama Bin Laden operated under a purely Religious point of view. The US worked alongside, though not directly with, Osama and his Mujahideen against the Soviets back in the 80's when they were trying to take over Afghanistan. Even then, Bin Laden didn't like the US. However when Saudi Arabia accepted the US help when Saddam invaded (rather than accepting Bin Laden's help) he became even more pissed off with us. Basically he felt that no Non-Muslim should be allowed in that area. Eventually he even went as far as to decree that it was "every muslims daily duty" to kill any North American (not just US) with the ultimate goal being regaining Mecca soley and completely for the Muslim community.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antwan
He was waging a Holy War in a very literal sense. It's not all that different from the ideology behind The Crusades, it's just the type of fighting is different. That and the existence of almost instantaneous worldwide media brings all the ugly and unfortunate aspects of war into every home.
usa with your president is behind the war on terror, this makes him responsible
random link to give you some numbers
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...or-415397.html
you still feel the lives of 3000 americans are more worth?
sidenote, over 4000 us soldiers are among those deaths you wanna revenge the other 3000 with. how you can feel pride and justice is beyond me.
and the link is from 2006. numbers are staggering.
more recent calculations here:
http://www.unknownnews.net/casualties.html
lol you ignantQuote:
Originally Posted by sk8cdt
Quote:
Originally Posted by bohemian
The Current US President didn't start the war and in fact, has very little to do with the actual day to day missions that have happened during the war. As opposed to Bin Laden, who had a hand in directly crafting 9/11 as well as issuing the direct order to execute that plan as well as other attacks.
You say that the US President should be held responsible for US, Enemy, and Civilian lives lost during a time of war, correct? So what then should the President (Bush) have done instead of waging war? What could be done to give justice to the victims of Bin Laden's many terrorist actions? What keeps Bin Ladin from attacking again?
What about other Anti-American forces? If Bin Laden gets off with a pass, what's to keep someone like.. say Kim Jong-il from attacking South Korea and the US, re-igniting that war?
What, in your opinion, was the right decision to make?
i never said i only referred to only the current president or government.
as for the right decision, id say not allowing/orchestrating an false flag opperation such as 911 to justify agressive entry into other countries for monitary gain would be better.
Well you said "your own president...should be treated the same way," which is singular. So who should be treated the same way? Bush? Obama? or Clinton (since he was the one who actually issued the arrest orders for Bin Laden in response to his embassy bombing)?Quote:
Originally Posted by bohemian
Did the US allow or orchestrate? Or are you not sure? Don't get me wrong.. I have my own beliefs about the whole situation that don't actually vary very far from what you seem to be insinuating here... but at the end of the day there's not a whole lot of facts behind those theories.
Moreover you're quick to judge. It's very easy to sit in the back of the class and poke fun at the kids with the wrong answers.. but who are you to poke fun when you don't have the answers either? You're not even certain that the answer was wrong to begin with.. you just think it was, with no evidence supporting that train of thought.
At the end of the day, someone has to make the hard decisions and I'd much rather have someone up there making the wrong decisions than someone who can't venture to make a decision at all.
Bin Laden most definitely commited many heinous crimes. He most definitely deserved to be punished for those crimes. That's what is being celebrated.
look, i dont have the answers. but there sure are enough unanswered questions regarding the events leading up to this. and if you think im the only one asking the same thing your very wrong.
lemme come plan to have some guys fly some 747's into your city, where your family and friends work and live and see how adamently you hunt me down. And i'll plant a couple bombs in your embassies just for good measure.
But no, really, you're right. We should all just take terrorist attacks like men and tell our people "I'm sorry your father/mother/husband/daughter jumped from the 52nd floor of the world trade center because they would rather die hitting the concrete at terminal velocity than be burned to death by hundreds of gallons of jet fuel. But nah, we can't go get those guys, cuz that would be mean."
^^watchu talkin bout willis
I suck at politics. I hate everything about it. I also suck at arguements...Quote:
Originally Posted by Roccityroller
but I see the point here. Those people deserved justice. That's not the way to die.
Well sure but I don't see where that came from lol
Mean to the terrorists..?
The fact of the matter is both sides have their wrongs.
We killed their people. They killed our people. The situation is too complicated and too censored to the public...
therefore finding the absolute right and wrong... hero and enemy...
is impossible.
death sentence fuck yeah !!Quote:
Originally Posted by Roccityroller
PSN goes down.. so does osama..
unrelated surely.
Is this now the baby Slap forums?
damn... just watched the news..
are people celebrating this all across the us ?
yes
they are
fucking dumb
my teacher turned on fox news, and the dude talking about it was like "why was bin laden able to afford this million dollar compound and have no job, while working people in america can barely get by"
fucking idiots
and jeraldo rivera is actually as stupid as he fucking sounds
and i don't know if anyone said this
i just want to correct cman because he's gay
burial at sea is not the preferred way to do an islamic burial
oh
PPS:
pics or gtfo
Yes...Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamooh
this i dont agree with, sickens me honestly. I'm happy that we got him and i understand where some of those people are coming from (ground zero), but outright parties in the street makes us look like we ARE the middle east.
The problem with these numbers are that a large portion of these deaths are caused by insurgent and local terrorist retaliation against the U.S. presence in Iraq. I don't think it's fair to attribute the deaths entirely to the U.S. military. It would be ignoring the fact that a lot of deaths are caused by people who are threatened by a democratic Iraq.Quote:
Originally Posted by bohemian
The problem with these numbers are that a large portion of these deaths are caused by insurgent and local terrorist retaliation against the U.S. presence in Iraq. I don't think it's fair to attribute the deaths entirely to the U.S. military. It would be ignoring the fact that a lot of deaths are caused by people who are threatened by a democratic Iraq.Quote:
Originally Posted by bohemian
Only because he died on land. However, it's likely that the US didn't want an actual location for Bin Laden supporters to be able to visit/honor/revere him. So.. it's still giving him a pretty fair shake considering what could have been done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Permy
mushrooms and clouds.
Sounds like a good tripQuote:
Originally Posted by saunders420
I'm against all kind of terror and 911 was a horrible event, no doubt in that. But what sickens me is the shitty eye-for-an-eye attidude most americans seem to have, i don't say all of them, and if you're feeling pissed on, it wasn't my intention, i'm just saying my honest opinion. For me the whole so called "war on terror" is a farce, the only possible reason for it wouldn't be hunting down obl but gain money, power and most important oil.
Just my two cents, feel free to hate me for saying so...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcoPoloUSN
These were very sound words and I feel like they were overlooked, so I'm highlighting them.
if your 4000 troopers had not been there, they would still be alive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spacepoet
I just want to restate: It's fair to celebrate for those who have personal connections to the events of 9/11, or any other attack that Bin Laden was "in charge" of.
However, in the words of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. - "I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."
I think that's a sentiment worth sharing. And again, I'm sorry so many of my fellow Americans give us a bad name. We're not all living by the Code of Hammurabi.
^^ i like that
Me, too!
Quote:
After all, every murderer when he kills runs the risk of the most dreadful of deaths, whereas those who kill him risk nothing except promotion.
Albert Camus
In my words, the death of a figure, or an ideal has happened. And that makes the lives of many good people a little easier to lead. However, as an human being, death is never something to celebrate.
I dunno, I have my reasons I was pleased with the news, but it was all seperate from the real humanity of the subject. I think a lot of people are having difficulty identifying that disconnect.
well i still think celebrating and telling people "justice is served" is like denying the concept of justice...im not supporting terrorists, i just mean that any criminal deserves a trial, victims deserve a trial... vengeance is barbary and should not be considered as a good way to end this...Quote:
Originally Posted by DonVigo
eye for an eye IS barbary
Tell a kid who lost a parent that justice wasn't served. Tell the wife of a firefighter that went in after the planes hit that justice wasn't served.
There are those who deserve celebration. To them, and to all my friends serving to protect me in a way I wasn't willing to so myself, some sort of positivity is fair.
You can argue the symantics of the subject all you want, but to those people, in my opinion, that is indeed justice being served.
Not the loss of life of another person, but the things which that person represented.
^^ again.. why is american lives more worth than for example afghan lives? or pakistani? or iraki? each death brings sorrow, be it in the holy usa or the middle east.
yeah you just let emotions drive justice, stinky argument... this is not how its done...Quote:
Originally Posted by DonVigo
Bohemian - Where in there did I say anyone's life was worth more than any other nationality's? That's a pretty asinine jump of logic. Again, to SOME, justice has been served. I think trying to take the sentiment away from those people only serves the purpose of being a true contrarian. They happen to be my countrymen, and I can share that sentiment to some degree. Again, this doesn't speak to the value of any person's life based on where they live aside from my ability to relate to them.
Slamooh - Again, the only reason I can think you say that is that you ignored the words "to those" in the second part of that which put the concept of "justice" into context. TO THOSE people, justice has been served. I can identify with that emotion, which is what I was speaking to... Not making an attempt to define "justice." Another far cry from what I was trying to say.
Again, there are some people who take pride in this piece of news. It's identifiable, unless you blindly defy that fact for the sake of doing so. There's no humanity in that. I personally don't celebrate the "justice" for my own personal good, but for those who deserve to do so themselves.
Either way if they would've gotten OBL alive and would've taken him to the US to give him a "fair" trial, the consequence would've been, that they'd sentence him to death either by chair, gas-chamber or whatnot. I'm all against death-penalty, it doesn't bring back those who died.
The only way to really serve justice would be to make peace, otherwise there still be people dying for some dickheads with blown attitudes that sit back in their fancy chairs, and don't get their hands dirty.
Fuck eye for an eye!!!
Osama didn't fly those planes and Obama didn't pull the trigger but both are murderers, for their idea of what is good and holy...
If he had come peacefully at anytime over the past 12+ years then I am sure he would have had a court to explain himself. However, he chose to run and orchestrate even more atrocities against his "enemies" for over a decade. What he got in the end he deserved in my opinion.
The US people celebrating in the street are just fucking nimrod college kids and idiots for the most part looking for an excuse to party and politicians/journalists celebrating his death are just positioning for public promotions.
As for the deaths involved in war. Even is a silly conflict like the War on Terrorism/Drugs/etc there will always be casualties. The US has actually done fairly well at trying to avoid civilian casualties. Our enemies however have not been as kind when you see them bombing schools, public transportation, cafe's, etc so those numbers go up. Both sides are flawed, but it depends on which side of the fence you view it from as to how much is acceptable. Go back to WW1, WW2, and Vietnam for example of how modern wars were fought to excess with little regard to civilian lives.
To me Bohemian is simply trolling, but it's getting responses. </shrug>
Surely it is a big thing for the US getting one of their biggest enemies, no doubt in that, and it is a welcome thing to have it right now, where the country and its financial system is against the wall. See all those spent dollars from your taxes went to a good aim.
I don't care about those partying people, they'd do so if a bag of rice would fall over in china...
You cannot compare the WW I & WW II with the asymetric warfare nowadays, if it was like in the wars before, men would meet on an open field shoot themselves and the last one standing is the winner, sadly it isn't so easy. We are in one opinion that every war has it casualties, there simply is no way to avoid that.
For me flix isn't trolling he just has another point of view...
Of course, i didnt ignore that part, imo, this is the main flaw of your point of view. you never put justice into context, you should not consider how the victims feel... ... If those people think justice has been served, i find it disturbing and its universally disturbing. Applying justice is trying to be objective... you should not consider subjective point of views.. especially victims who lack logic because of emotions.Quote:
Originally Posted by DonVigo
but we re really off subject...
So, in other words, you lack the compassion to be able to identify with those this is a good thing to, and my point of view is flawed?
If you say so. I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you at this point, as I don't think you and I could see eye to eye on this subject. You strike me as either too holier-than-thou, or simply too rooted in your own opinion to get anywhere with. I stand by my point that this is a victory to some, and I identify with it. You don't. Doesn't make my opinion on the subject "flawed."
i dont even feel the need to justify my statements. trolling or not, call it what you will. but i def do not jump to conclustions, ive been following this for ages and ive seen and read as much as i can to base my own view of whats happened and is happening. Theres many sides and the whole situation is insanely complex. and i dont like arguing in forums, english is not my main language and i often get misunderstodd or misinterpreted.
bottom line, the world is fucked.. and it will only get worse the coming years. (partly because the american population is brainwashed into supporting these "justified" wars on whatever they choose for the time beeing.)
true that, as long as there are people starving and other countries annihilate food with tax-payer's money to keep prices high, mankind will erase itself. but that's pretty much off topicQuote:
Originally Posted by bohemian
In the earlier posts to me flix you just came across troll like. You're allowed your opinion no matter how much I may disagree with aspects of it. A good portion to me just simply reminds me of the other side of the fence analogy.
As for comparing it to WW1 and WW2 slam that was just an example of how different the wars (and I use that loosely for war on terror) have been fought. Instead of carpet bombing entire neighborhoods the troops are trying hard for precision attacks. This doesn't always happen, but it does show a way they are trying to change the parts of previous warfare they viewed as mistakes. I myself view war differently and thankfully I am not in charge or the death tolls would be a hell of a lot higher. War on Terror is political posturing as it's a premise that can never be won and a metric fuckton of contries are involved in this sham. I just hope our troops come home soon.
Let's not forget that they will bomb with intent of killing themselvesQuote:
Originally Posted by Roccityroller
Bad trip.
You're acting like he was executed without due process. The Seal Team's mission was to capture and extract him. When they breached the house to capture him, he picked up a weapon and attacked. Had he not picked up that AK, he'd have been taken into custody alive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamooh
No one is saying one life is worth more than another and you're definitely trolling the topic with that garbage. Death is inevitable in war and War will exist so long as Mankind is fallible.Quote:
Originally Posted by bohemian
I disagree. Capture was the intent of the mission. He picked up a gun and was unwilling to be taken alive (like many evil men before him). In that regard, the Seal(s) who are directly responsible for his death had no other choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingskyline
The logic implied here is nice and all but doesn't work in reality. The damage done to the victim MUST be considered when dealing justice. How else would won determine if the punishment fits the crime? Keep in mind that specifically in this case, Bin Laden had released tons of propaganda boasting about the crimes he committed.. so the need to prove it was him would've been ceremonial at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamooh
It's most definitely trolling. And overall your "opinion" is offensive even if only because not only do you look down your nose at others for their decisions, without offering your own but because you're grouping an entire society together in your twisted, unproven viewpoint.Quote:
Originally Posted by bohemian
Jest, what bothers me is how people use the term justice, how people are celebrating this in the US and all of that is dumb. Its maybe just symantics as donvigo said... its not. It gives a hint about how some people think in the USA...and i hate that.
I still think it's bad hes dead and im really wondering if it was a murder raid or a capture raid...
A question is : capture him or kill him, whats best for USA ? what's best for obama ? a trial or a corpse in the sea ?
I dont have answers, im just wondering. i do think we can't trust what is being told about the raid...we ll never know i guess...
Dude i definitely agree with this
but letting emotions speak is weak... this is not how justice works. Letting emotions speak means punishment won't fit the crime ...no control over emotions and the primitive being in everyone of us takes the lead, fails at reasoning, retaliation... i know theres no doubt here, Bin Laden is a bad guy. There should not be any difference in the justice process between a guy killing one person and a guy killing thousands though...Quote:
The damage done to the victim MUST be considered when dealing justice
By the way, i m strongly against death sentence. Maybe thats why my opinion seems twisted... But its another debate i guess
America is an embarrassing place to live sometimes. A great place full of great people who make very poor decisions. This attitude of "They killed ours so we gotta kill theirs!!!!" is the type of logic you should have left in the sandbox in elementary school. Additionally, you're celebrating the death of someone who has no operational role in Al Qaeda. Bin Laden was a spiritual leader and mentor, he was not planning or issuing the orders that cost anyone their lives. It will have no effect on their operation. They have gained a martyr and these battles and constant infiltrations into countries where we have no business will only inspire more to join their ranks. Why does everyone think that going in and killing these people is going to change anything? We are giving them exactly what they want in doing so. These people want Jihad. We're giving them that.
In addition this talk about revenge for 9/11 is frustrating to me. Why do you think that they attacked us on 9/11? Something to do with how they "hate freedom"? Do you think they want to martyr themselves to attack our "freedom"? Could it possibly have anything to do with our military bases in their land? Huh, you think they might be mad about our soldiers occupying land that's been theirs for hundreds of years? Who would've thought... Our military occupations have killed much much more than 3,000 people. I'm not trying to devalue the lives of the victims at all, it was a terrible tragedy and a loss for all of humanity. But we continue to behave in a way that prompts these attacks and are somehow expecting a different response. Do you think any of the victims would say "Yes, please avenge my death with the lives of thousands of other civilians, American and allied troops"? I don't. I don't know what the right response is. I don't have the answers and no one person has all of the answers. Which is why it's important that people really look into what's happening so that everyone can bring something to the table to discuss so that we could maybe reach some sort of agreement. Or we could just keep up the macho bullshit and wait for the nuclear holocaust.
Here are some interesting thoughts about the situation from someone who has covered Al Qaeda extensively. It's short, read it, it'll hopefully make you think. http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/05/02-2
In all fairness, 10 years ago I caught a lot of flack from my friends and family members because I was the one going "you know, there's a very valid reason other cultures hate us and would want to attack us."Quote:
Originally Posted by HorseHead
I understand how a lot of the world looks at us. Face it, we're the ones making Jersey Shore happen. If there was a single example I could give as to why it is the rest of the world looks at Americans with disdain, that'd be the best one I could give. And, HorseHead, you're right... It's fucking embarrassing. Sad as it is, TV seems to be the biggest influence on our culture, and if you look at that media influence, no wonder we all seem stupid, greedy, and childishly indignant about our perception of our freedoms and liberties. We make celebrities out of people who shouldn't be paid any attention to in the first place, and then obsess over all of their flaws while hypocritically emulating them. We have major news networks which aren't legitamite news outlets, yet people follow the biased and slanted information as if it were some sort of holy verbiage. We do what we want, when we want to do it, regardless of who it may effect, because we're freee to do so, and if you try to go against that freedom or speak ill of it you're "unamerican" or "unpatriotic."
I think rather than "a great place full of great people who make very poor decisions" I'd say "it's a great place with some great people and some individuals who care more about themselves and what they're 'free' to do than the greater good of the rest of their society."
Another thing I've been chastised for saying before, but I still believe it: I'm fortunate to be an American. I don't know if it's anything to take pride in anymore.
notes with demzilla....
like bo..
you read every article you can to make your own decision...
like opinions...
every one is entitled to one and should be allowed to keep having one...
like all american history.
"a eye for an eye" is thee military democratic motto...
like language...
"justice" is not the same as "fare" "balanced" "even" "honest" "right" "wrong"..
like sympathy..
im not connected but i am allowed to rejoice with those that are effected...
like extremist...
we have them in the streets "rioting"/celebrating like others strap bombs to them selfs...
you shouldnt be poking others opinions with a fine tooth comb trying to dismantle the others persons logic...
you should be asking each other thoughtful questions to help each other understand each persons point of view..
opinions are not persuasive essays...
there is no right and wrong...
respect is understanding differences..
lets try to respect each other here boys...
personally..
even if that pic of his head is fake...
its the exact thing i wanted to see the next morning..
when i was at the bar the bartender on the bull horn said "raise your glass for america"
i did..
and i drank a sip in celebration for my fellow countrymen...
that was my celebration/sympathy...
is what we did "justice"...
honestly...
what "justice" could match the amount of harm and pain this one man has caused?...
probably nothing...
so that term kinda makes no sense to me...
i woulda used a headline using the word "closure"...
to me its more respectful....
oh i cant wait to get the name of the dude who got the bullet through his left eye..
so gangster...
Semantics, again, but I agree Demz. Probably the better term for the situation I was referencing in the first place. I raise my... Uh... Cup of coffee to you!Quote:
is what we did "justice"...
honestly...
what "justice" could match the amount of harm and pain this one man has caused?...
probably nothing...
so that term kinda makes no sense to me...
i woulda used a headline using the word "closure"...
to me its more respectful....
"who care more about themselves"
is a ...
"very poor decisions"
semantics..
"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that" -Martin Luther King, Jr
Yeah, I rephrased. Which is a function of semantics. Just expanding upon a thought I agree with by adding my own thoughts to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demzilla
quit it?Quote:
Originally Posted by bohemian
so many people were hyped on that shit today
fucking idiots
I like cookies..
jokes don....
but yeah...
so niggas dead...
does anybody see any shit changing because of this?....
coughNOcough..
when its all said and done...
south park has less joke material
I've been reading these posts quite carefully. I agree with some of you more than others.
I will not bother sharing my geopolitic views but I have to say that Horseheads post brings joy to my heart. Remarkably insightful to say the least.
That's scary, mostly because it's true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demzilla
Here's US policy explained simply:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ6kMWA2WRk
It's a fucking show in here...
Flaming debates...
eh fuck it... i suck at debates...
god bless them fucking americans
While those questions are valid.. the only thing questionable about the entire event is the burial. When you take into account Bin Laden's mantra and the values that he preached and lived by.. the official story makes perfect sense. That he refused to be taken alive. No matter how skilled that Seal team is.. if they're being fired upon.. they're going to put down that threat. They're not going to risk their own lives for the sake of sparing him just so that he could be killed in a sanctioned execution later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamooh
As far as what is best politically.. look at the rampant doubt that's flying through the world. Conspiracy theorists thrive on the idea that the general populace is easily swayed and confused. So what does it mean that the General Populace is doubting the legitimacy? Did everyone suddenly get smarter/more aware? Nope. It's just that people want evidence and that evidence isn't being provided. So definitely.. a live capture and trial would have been infinitely better than this death and quick burial. It would have been irrefutable. So though the way the events have unfolded is odd.. they certainly don't benefit those currently in power.
I agree that being overly emotional compromises logic. But empathy does not. That's why victims don't choose the punishments.. judges do. So to say that the emotional state the victim is left in after the fact should be ignored completely, is a bit much for me. It should be considered because the emotional state of the victim is a part of the damage done. I do not, for a second, feel that the mission was intended to kill though. If that were truly the case, he would've been killed by an explosive device rather than with bullets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamooh
I had something else written.. but decided to just keep it short. Nothing the US did prior to 9/11 warranted those attacks. Bin Laden's own twisted ideology and his perversion of Islam is what caused those acts.. not the other way around. Our presence in Muslim countries has only been invasive in the aftermath of 9/11.Quote:
Originally Posted by HorseHead
While occupying the Middle East hasn't made us popular in the least bit.. we only had two choices. Fight or Allow another similar attack happen. Bin Laden and aL Queda's plan to fight the US was hinged on the US bringing the fight to them. And the only way to do that was to attack our civilians in such a manner as to make it a necessity for us. So trust.. if we didn't fight them now.. they would've just kept trying to attack our Civilian Population to entice us into War until they achieved it.
It's a little bit like when you're a kid. You're told never to hit others even if they hit you. And in some cases.. not responding works. In other cases however, not responding is taken as a sign of weakness and they just keep hitting you. Eventually.. even if it's exactly what they want.. you're going to have to hit back.
Hibbity bloo blah
We started a war
killed osama
What happens when people are off guard
war tactics son
You're on the money. My wife just deployed to Afghanistan right before this happened and she'll still be out there for her entire scheduled deployment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demzilla
......FilmBurns!
wait thats not right...... BILL HICKS FOR LIFE!
Osama Dead, all Americans going wild..... Im not proud to say I am an American
my 2 cents about partying...
i personally don't have a problem with it... i wouldn't do it myself but...
i guess its one of those emotional things.
we will never know the extent of anger, hatred, and sadness that those Americans had when they had to jump and fall at ripping speeds... to their death.. when they had to watch from the windows of a plane... waiting for an incredibly terrible impact. I feel bad for the people on the planes. Imagine their faces as they inched closer to the building. They'd all throw a party... a big one.
ive been thinking about this all day..
i knew this shit didnt make sense..
http://www.csmonitor.com/Innovation/...her-King-quote
"Megan McArdle, a blogger at the Atlantic, tracked the original quote down to Jessica Dovey, a recent Penn State grad living in Kobe, Japan, who posted this as her Facebook status:
I will mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. "Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that." MLK Jr.
The first sentence is Ms. Dovey's own, followed by a quotation from King's 1963 book, "Strength to Love." At some point along the way, the quote marks vanished, and Dovey's words got mixed up with King's. Subsequently, the quote was shortened, leaving only Dovey's line, now attributed to the civil rights leader."
mlk...
is not stupid...
jest..
my homeboy left like 3 weeks ago...
Jest, while I respect your opinion I have to disagree with you. And that's fine, conversations like this are a good thing, you seem like a good dude and my response is definitely intended to be respectful, if there's any doubt. But, I don't believe that our presence has only recently become invasive. Of course there was nothing to warrant those attacks and of course religious fanaticism is hugely to blame for this, but I don't feel that these attacks would have occurred had the US not been involved in the Middle East. The issues in that area are incredibly complex and have been built over hundreds of years. Our presence there did not help.Quote:
Originally Posted by jest118
Did we really only have two choices? I'm going to quote something from the article I linked earlier:Quote:
Originally Posted by jest118
"So I was in the Middle East in the days after 9/11. And we had garnered the empathy of not only most of the world, but the Muslim world who were appalled at what had been done in the name of their religion. And we had major religious figures like Sheikh Tantawy, the head of al-Azhar – who died recently – who after the attacks of 9/11 not only denounced them as a crime against humanity, which they were, but denounced Osama bin Laden as a fraud … someone who had no right to issue fatwas or religious edicts, no religious legitimacy, no religious training. And the tragedy was that if we had the courage to be vulnerable, if we had built on that empathy, we would be far safer and more secure today than we are."
I feel that while there may be at some point a need for the US to retaliate to protect itself, an approach like the one referenced above would at the very least show the world that we are not wild cowboys waiting for the opportunity to bust through the door, guns blazing. Violence is definitely their best tool for recruiting new members. If we can further prove them to be outsiders of the Muslim world, by practicing peace, then maybe their recruitment will be affected. This may not be the most effective idea, but it's one that exists. There are also probably more, I'm no expert on the subject. I just read some shit on the internet, same as everyone else.
I hope your wife comes home safe and sound, Jest.
Ok, I'm done talking about world events on a fake skateboarding forum. Haha.
Apparently we're all just finding out
they didn't announce his death until they got hard DNA evidence
Kind've funny that we can't indentify the guy we've been hunting
So it must've been a guns a blazing thing.. unrecognizable so they needed proof.
You have no idea how relieved I am about this. I kept seeing people post this quote everywhere and I kept thinking it didn't make any sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demzilla
Good thoughts go out towards him. May he return home safely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Demzilla
The respect is shared.Quote:
Originally Posted by HorseHead
Generally I agree. Everything stems from the creation of Israel and how volatile that whole situation is. However that was a collective act of the UN.. so I don't see why the US gets the majority of the flack for it. Aside from that major issue though, the US presence in the Middle East before that point had been to help keep Communist Russia out of Afghanistan (thus helping the Muslim country) and helping fight off Saddam's invasion of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia (again.. to help the Muslim countries). In all situations.. the Government in power Requested and Accepted our help. We didn't just fly in against those countries will.
I would agree wholeheartedly had that been their first/only attack. But it was Bin Laden's 2nd attack on the WTC Buildings in less than 15 years, in addition to multiple attacks to Embassy's around the world. Couple that with the fact that it was the largest American casualty to a terrorist attack in the history of the country and that it was done on our own soil and it makes the choice to seek retribution of some type almost immediately necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by HorseHead
Appreciate it man. Despite having different opinions, it's good to discuss these things.. so no worries.Quote:
Originally Posted by HorseHead
I think it was more because Bin Laden has/had Doubles in many different places throughout the world. Had to make sure it was actually him and not a Doppleganger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antwan
On a stand alone note: I was just watching somthing on PBS that said the Seals reported that Bin Laden wasn't armed, so I could be wrong on that.. which would, of course, lend to legitimizing the thought that it might have been the teams mission to kill him. Still.. it would've been much better to capture him.
look what i started a debate lol
Saddam Hussein's dead?
No, Saddam and Tupac have a new album coming out next month.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerr bear
Must tell Elvis Presley
Elvis produced it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerr bear
It's going to be on the We are Fluckit video guys..
Got it bootleg.
Link ploxQuote:
Originally Posted by Antwan
Shit's already on YouTube fool
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XpX1Yod7JQ
Okay you gotta admit I was close
That was the first album. duh! Biggie produced that joint.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerr bear
nice find. i smell grammy.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerr bear
Ahhhh, his last FB entry. Saw it earlier and snickered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Monk
why did this thread suddenly turn EA?
People got too heavy so we added levity.Quote:
Originally Posted by bohemian
lol why did i start this :) its getting crazyQuote:
Originally Posted by bohemian
lol this post made the thread EA imoQuote:
Originally Posted by bohemian
loveyou
this thread isn't crazy imo...Quote:
Originally Posted by bohemian
just a good discusssion
thanks for the insult bo!...
way to put down everyone in the thread and the forum at the same time..
touche...
funniest thing monk's ever posted
good job
dag gave me dis
http://www.reuters.com/subjects/bin-laden-compound
eeeeeeeeeeeeee
no what i meant ur confuzed ( like its getting crazy because it went EA lol)Quote:
Originally Posted by Demzilla
jokes...
YESILURKTHISFORUMCONSTANTLY...
Justice - the fair and equal treatment of everyone.
I offer this simple definition to point out that justice has not been served. One cannot serve justice, just as an entire country cannot serve justice. It would take an entire nation's population to "serve justice" upon itself, which will never happen.
With that being said, war has always been ugly. War, by definition, demands death. Osama bin Laden declared War on America. His terrorist organization killed innocent American citizens in the most shocking and public display of violence that the world has ever seen within the boundaries of America's most symbolically American city (N.Y.).
The ensuing "war on terrorism" was clearly misguided. It has even been suggested that America was duped by its own government to support a war in Iraq based on false premises so that public money could be privatized (tax money was spent into private coffers via sub-contracted war companies). These events were unfortunate. America's reputation has been badly tarnished as a result and deservedly so.
Obama is NOT responsible for Bush's War on Terror. It is irresponsible to misunderstand culpability. Osama bin Laden's crimes were horrific. He is a mass murderer, there can be no question. Obama punished his crimes and deserves credit for rectifying the wrongs that Bush could not.
It is unfortunate that America seems to take pleasure in a man's death, but that man was himself a killer. If a man walked into my home and shot my wife and child in the head I would not stop long enough to value his life or ponder the ethics of retribution. I would in fact murder him in hot blood. I would let my rage take control. I would see his blood run into the dirt even if it meant that my life was forfeit.
I say all of this simply to illustrate the idea that Osama bin Laden's murder was both justified and sanctioned. The American reaction is subject to scrutiny, but Obama is not to blame, just as a father is not responsible for the actions of his children.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
most intelligent thing i've heard all day.
If you or anyone else really believes, armed or not, that Bin Laden would've allowed himself to be captured alive, you're both naive and stupid, I'm sorry. But he is not one to become a prisoner and would much rather die a "martyr" in his 'people's' eyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by jest118
goooooooooooooooooooooooo jack
DP NIGGA
ALL DAY ER DAY
DOUBLES FO LIFE SON
EVERYBODY GOT A DOPPELGAENGER
SUCK A DICK
but ferreal though
yunotakepikturofosama
bin laden influenced the guy to create pokemon to fund the war on terror and build factories that served for training grounds to train al quesdila .
bin laden lives on my couch . global/topangabooty
thanks but i disagreeQuote:
Originally Posted by Roccityroller
I don't think he wanted to be captured dead,
how else was he gonna make money with the single he and 2Pac brought out?!
THINK PEOPLE
I miss the picture. It made the post more sexah. Besides he faked his death so he could stay on the CIA payroll and still be able to cut the Tupac album incognito.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerr bear
Just add me on GW