Bin laden DEAD !

[DonVigo]

Tell a kid who lost a parent that justice wasn't served. Tell the wife of a firefighter that went in after the planes hit that justice wasn't served.

There are those who deserve celebration. To them, and to all my friends serving to protect me in a way I wasn't willing to so myself, some sort of positivity is fair.

You can argue the symantics of the subject all you want, but to those people, in my opinion, that is indeed justice being served.

Not the loss of life of another person, but the things which that person represented.

[bohemian]

^^ again.. why is american lives more worth than for example afghan lives? or pakistani? or iraki? each death brings sorrow, be it in the holy usa or the middle east.

[Permy]

^^ again.. why is american lives more worth than for example afghan lives? or pakistani? or iraki? each death brings sorrow, be it in the holy usa or the middle east.

quit it?

so many people were hyped on that shit today
fucking idiots

[Skatehead]

I like cookies..

[Demzilla]

jokes don....

but yeah...

so niggas dead...

does anybody see any shit changing because of this?....

coughNOcough..

[mamba12]

when its all said and done...

south park has less joke material

[knexzor]

I've been reading these posts quite carefully. I agree with some of you more than others.
I will not bother sharing my geopolitic views but I have to say that Horseheads post brings joy to my heart. Remarkably insightful to say the least.

[HorseHead]

like all american history.
"a eye for an eye" is thee military democratic motto...

That's scary, mostly because it's true.

Here's US policy explained simply:

[jest118]

Jest, what bothers me is how people use the term justice, how people are celebrating this in the US and all of that is dumb. Its maybe just symantics as donvigo said... its not. It gives a hint about how some people think in the USA...and i hate that.
I still think it's bad hes dead and im really wondering if it was a murder raid or a capture raid...
A question is : capture him or kill him, whats best for USA ? what's best for obama ? a trial or a corpse in the sea ?
I dont have answers, im just wondering. i do think we can't trust what is being told about the raid...we ll never know i guess...

While those questions are valid.. the only thing questionable about the entire event is the burial. When you take into account Bin Laden's mantra and the values that he preached and lived by.. the official story makes perfect sense. That he refused to be taken alive. No matter how skilled that Seal team is.. if they're being fired upon.. they're going to put down that threat. They're not going to risk their own lives for the sake of sparing him just so that he could be killed in a sanctioned execution later.

As far as what is best politically.. look at the rampant doubt that's flying through the world. Conspiracy theorists thrive on the idea that the general populace is easily swayed and confused. So what does it mean that the General Populace is doubting the legitimacy? Did everyone suddenly get smarter/more aware? Nope. It's just that people want evidence and that evidence isn't being provided. So definitely.. a live capture and trial would have been infinitely better than this death and quick burial. It would have been irrefutable. So though the way the events have unfolded is odd.. they certainly don't benefit those currently in power.

Dude i definitely agree with this
but letting emotions speak is weak... this is not how justice works. Letting emotions speak means punishment won't fit the crime ...no control over emotions and the primitive being in everyone of us takes the lead, fails at reasoning, retaliation... i know theres no doubt here, Bin Laden is a bad guy. There should not be any difference in the justice process between a guy killing one person and a guy killing thousands though...

By the way, i m strongly against death sentence. Maybe thats why my opinion seems twisted... But its another debate i guess

I agree that being overly emotional compromises logic. But empathy does not. That's why victims don't choose the punishments.. judges do. So to say that the emotional state the victim is left in after the fact should be ignored completely, is a bit much for me. It should be considered because the emotional state of the victim is a part of the damage done. I do not, for a second, feel that the mission was intended to kill though. If that were truly the case, he would've been killed by an explosive device rather than with bullets.

America is an embarrassing place to live sometimes. A great place full of great people who make very poor decisions. This attitude of "They killed ours so we gotta kill theirs!!!!" is the type of logic you should have left in the sandbox in elementary school. Additionally, you're celebrating the death of someone who has no operational role in Al Qaeda. Bin Laden was a spiritual leader and mentor, he was not planning or issuing the orders that cost anyone their lives. It will have no effect on their operation. They have gained a martyr and these battles and constant infiltrations into countries where we have no business will only inspire more to join their ranks. Why does everyone think that going in and killing these people is going to change anything? We are giving them exactly what they want in doing so. These people want Jihad. We're giving them that.

In addition this talk about revenge for 9/11 is frustrating to me. Why do you think that they attacked us on 9/11? Something to do with how they "hate freedom"? Do you think they want to martyr themselves to attack our "freedom"? Could it possibly have anything to do with our military bases in their land? Huh, you think they might be mad about our soldiers occupying land that's been theirs for hundreds of years? Who would've thought... Our military occupations have killed much much more than 3,000 people. I'm not trying to devalue the lives of the victims at all, it was a terrible tragedy and a loss for all of humanity. But we continue to behave in a way that prompts these attacks and are somehow expecting a different response. Do you think any of the victims would say "Yes, please avenge my death with the lives of thousands of other civilians, American and allied troops"? I don't. I don't know what the right response is. I don't have the answers and no one person has all of the answers. Which is why it's important that people really look into what's happening so that everyone can bring something to the table to discuss so that we could maybe reach some sort of agreement. Or we could just keep up the macho bullshit and wait for the nuclear holocaust.

Here are some interesting thoughts about the situation from someone who has covered Al Qaeda extensively. It's short, read it, it'll hopefully make you think. http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/05/02-2

I had something else written.. but decided to just keep it short. Nothing the US did prior to 9/11 warranted those attacks. Bin Laden's own twisted ideology and his perversion of Islam is what caused those acts.. not the other way around. Our presence in Muslim countries has only been invasive in the aftermath of 9/11.

While occupying the Middle East hasn't made us popular in the least bit.. we only had two choices. Fight or Allow another similar attack happen. Bin Laden and aL Queda's plan to fight the US was hinged on the US bringing the fight to them. And the only way to do that was to attack our civilians in such a manner as to make it a necessity for us. So trust.. if we didn't fight them now.. they would've just kept trying to attack our Civilian Population to entice us into War until they achieved it.

It's a little bit like when you're a kid. You're told never to hit others even if they hit you. And in some cases.. not responding works. In other cases however, not responding is taken as a sign of weakness and they just keep hitting you. Eventually.. even if it's exactly what they want.. you're going to have to hit back.

[jest118]

jokes don....

but yeah...

so niggas dead...

does anybody see any shit changing because of this?....

coughNOcough..

You're on the money. My wife just deployed to Afghanistan right before this happened and she'll still be out there for her entire scheduled deployment.

[MarcoPoloUSN]

It's a fucking show in here...

Flaming debates...

eh fuck it... i suck at debates...

god bless them fucking americans

[Slamooh]

Tell a kid who lost a parent that justice wasn't served. Tell the wife of a firefighter that went in after the planes hit that justice wasn't served.

yeah you just let emotions drive justice, stinky argument... this is not how its done...

[DonVigo]

Bohemian - Where in there did I say anyone's life was worth more than any other nationality's? That's a pretty asinine jump of logic. Again, to SOME, justice has been served. I think trying to take the sentiment away from those people only serves the purpose of being a true contrarian. They happen to be my countrymen, and I can share that sentiment to some degree. Again, this doesn't speak to the value of any person's life based on where they live aside from my ability to relate to them.

Slamooh - Again, the only reason I can think you say that is that you ignored the words "to those" in the second part of that which put the concept of "justice" into context. TO THOSE people, justice has been served. I can identify with that emotion, which is what I was speaking to... Not making an attempt to define "justice." Another far cry from what I was trying to say.

Again, there are some people who take pride in this piece of news. It's identifiable, unless you blindly defy that fact for the sake of doing so. There's no humanity in that. I personally don't celebrate the "justice" for my own personal good, but for those who deserve to do so themselves.

[Slamooh]

Slamooh - Again, the only reason I can think you say that is that you ignored the words "to those" in the second part of that which put the concept of "justice" into context. TO THOSE people, justice has been served. I can identify with that emotion, which is what I was speaking to... Not making an attempt to define "justice." Another far cry from what I was trying to say.

Of course, i didnt ignore that part, imo, this is the main flaw of your point of view. you never put justice into context, you should not consider how the victims feel... ... If those people think justice has been served, i find it disturbing and its universally disturbing. Applying justice is trying to be objective... you should not consider subjective point of views.. especially victims who lack logic because of emotions.
but we re really off subject...

[DonVigo]

So, in other words, you lack the compassion to be able to identify with those this is a good thing to, and my point of view is flawed?

If you say so. I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you at this point, as I don't think you and I could see eye to eye on this subject. You strike me as either too holier-than-thou, or simply too rooted in your own opinion to get anywhere with. I stand by my point that this is a victory to some, and I identify with it. You don't. Doesn't make my opinion on the subject "flawed."

[bohemian]

i dont even feel the need to justify my statements. trolling or not, call it what you will. but i def do not jump to conclustions, ive been following this for ages and ive seen and read as much as i can to base my own view of whats happened and is happening. Theres many sides and the whole situation is insanely complex. and i dont like arguing in forums, english is not my main language and i often get misunderstodd or misinterpreted.

bottom line, the world is fucked.. and it will only get worse the coming years. (partly because the american population is brainwashed into supporting these "justified" wars on whatever they choose for the time beeing.)

[fallingskyline]

bottom line, the world is fucked.. and it will only get worse the coming years.

true that, as long as there are people starving and other countries annihilate food with tax-payer's money to keep prices high, mankind will erase itself. but that's pretty much off topic

[replicant]

In the earlier posts to me flix you just came across troll like. You're allowed your opinion no matter how much I may disagree with aspects of it. A good portion to me just simply reminds me of the other side of the fence analogy.

As for comparing it to WW1 and WW2 slam that was just an example of how different the wars (and I use that loosely for war on terror) have been fought. Instead of carpet bombing entire neighborhoods the troops are trying hard for precision attacks. This doesn't always happen, but it does show a way they are trying to change the parts of previous warfare they viewed as mistakes. I myself view war differently and thankfully I am not in charge or the death tolls would be a hell of a lot higher. War on Terror is political posturing as it's a premise that can never be won and a metric fuckton of contries are involved in this sham. I just hope our troops come home soon.

[fallingskyline]

Either way if they would've gotten OBL alive and would've taken him to the US to give him a "fair" trial, the consequence would've been, that they'd sentence him to death either by chair, gas-chamber or whatnot. I'm all against death-penalty, it doesn't bring back those who died.
The only way to really serve justice would be to make peace, otherwise there still be people dying for some dickheads with blown attitudes that sit back in their fancy chairs, and don't get their hands dirty.
Fuck eye for an eye!!!
Osama didn't fly those planes and Obama didn't pull the trigger but both are murderers, for their idea of what is good and holy...

[replicant]

If he had come peacefully at anytime over the past 12+ years then I am sure he would have had a court to explain himself. However, he chose to run and orchestrate even more atrocities against his "enemies" for over a decade. What he got in the end he deserved in my opinion.

The US people celebrating in the street are just fucking nimrod college kids and idiots for the most part looking for an excuse to party and politicians/journalists celebrating his death are just positioning for public promotions.

As for the deaths involved in war. Even is a silly conflict like the War on Terrorism/Drugs/etc there will always be casualties. The US has actually done fairly well at trying to avoid civilian casualties. Our enemies however have not been as kind when you see them bombing schools, public transportation, cafe's, etc so those numbers go up. Both sides are flawed, but it depends on which side of the fence you view it from as to how much is acceptable. Go back to WW1, WW2, and Vietnam for example of how modern wars were fought to excess with little regard to civilian lives.

To me Bohemian is simply trolling, but it's getting responses. </shrug>

[fallingskyline]

Surely it is a big thing for the US getting one of their biggest enemies, no doubt in that, and it is a welcome thing to have it right now, where the country and its financial system is against the wall. See all those spent dollars from your taxes went to a good aim.
I don't care about those partying people, they'd do so if a bag of rice would fall over in china...
You cannot compare the WW I & WW II with the asymetric warfare nowadays, if it was like in the wars before, men would meet on an open field shoot themselves and the last one standing is the winner, sadly it isn't so easy. We are in one opinion that every war has it casualties, there simply is no way to avoid that.

For me flix isn't trolling he just has another point of view...