C.A.P. killed creativity.

[Slamooh]

sign guy, when im talking about pools / bowls, im talking about the opportunity given by dryness... skateboarders took that opportunity and they were like "look at this empty pool, i'm pretty sure we can ride it even if it's not made for"... like skateboarders take opportunities in the street. its not the same opportunity at all when you go to a skatepark to ride perfectly shaped transitions. transitions are made for skateboarding, street isnt. and you're right, after that dryness thing, it was all about the best transition... at the same time, street skateboarding started to evolve too.
but i've always thought skateboarding is about hitting something that is not meant for (that's certainly why i dont like transition... or is it the other way around ? i don't know...)

its pretty hard to explain to be honest. i definitely agree with jerrel and stev.
as steve says, I can relate to the spots and the difficulty/creativity in a PC video. not everyone in the community is obsessed about difficulty...i am.

maybe its a wrong idea to mix rl and fakeskatebaording ...

[thesignguy]

I totally understand what you are saying. But I don't think it's creativity that is a basis for your argument. All you guys are just stating you side on weather you like cap street skating skate parks or vert. I just don't really see how that has anything to do with creativity but more with personal preference. I totally understand what stevland is saying about hitting a spot that's created, not knowing or understanding the difficulty of it. This comes to play certainly with filming. Sometimes the best angle kills all credibility of difficulty. But the viewers interpretation doesn't have anything to do with creativity. If the title of this thread was "any cap clip kills my viewing enjoyment" then I might be more on your side.

[Slamooh]

i don't see many opportunities in CAPS, standard ledges rails and stuff. sometimes parks are kinda twisted and i love it (vp, tno, ...) but most of the time its kinda bland, like a skatepark. even if you try hard, you dont have opportunities to get creative.
and i think it has something to do with builders creativity.

[pawnluvguitarist]

"CAP killed creativity" is just too broad of a statement.

There are people that were never creative and use the CAP parks as a crutch to just have new places to do the same old uncreative tricks.

At the other end of the spectrum there are the guys that have always been creative, and CAP doesn't take away from their creativity it's just another outlet, another tool.

It also comes down to the parks as well, personally I almost only skate SGs parks and the CAP Faction parks because they are either really creative parks, or so organic that they feel like an actual city, still tonnes of non obvious stuff to look for.

[rzrfvr]

i don't see many opportunities in CAPS, standard ledges rails and stuff. sometimes parks are kinda twisted and i love it (vp, tno, ...) but most of the time its kinda bland, like a skatepark. even if you try hard, you dont have opportunities to get creative.
and i think it has something to do with builders creativity.

That has everything to do with the builder. Creativity is being able to do things with stuff that weren't meant for it. That is more or less the definition of skateboarding.

I'm totally convinced that if we had more pieces to choose from in CAP we wouldn't have come as far as we have in creating interesting stuff. Now, you start with an idea and you have to look for pieces that could work when put together to form something completely different.

I have never built a CAP which looks and feels like a skate park. I don't think any of the other guys on CAP Faction really have either. The parts in CAP suggest that the pieces should be used to create stuff that looks like a skate park which is why for me it is really a creative exercise for me to try and build something else.

For me the point of not knowing if a spot is hard to hit or not is kind of moot. It doesn't even apply to real life skate videos because most people haven't skated any of the spots. I guess personally, skating (in game or in real life) is about expression, not competition.

[knexzor]

I agree with the french bloke.

I can see why people like CAP, simply because it gives them new things to skate. For me personally it's not that interesting. When I watch a PC video I can relate to the spots and the difficulty/creativity.
When I watch a CAP video I have no idea about the spots. Yes, that rail may be a bitch to hit, but I don't know that and I'll probably never find out. I still watch the videos and I enjoy the CAPs and the skating, but it's no comparison to a PC video.
And the horrible framerate of CAPs only adds up to that.

Bold sums up my views.
I might also add that most PC spots have the same 'I don't know how hard that was'-factor, atleast to me.
Spots in general don't have the same impact on me as it did in OG/s2, perhaps because everything feels optimized to be easy-to-hit in skate 3.

After they found pools what came next? Building the perfect transition to achieve what they wanted.

Previously mentioned Pontus Alv actually does the exact opposite, he designed one of the parks here in Malmö and it has all the small, tight and quirky transitions you could wish for. Really hard to skate but really fun.

[Ohmidineffect]

Agreed, I'm not gunna lie CAP parks for the most part puts a limit on how awesome you can skate, how ever not EVERYONE builds skate parks alot of us build cities for you to skate with custom buildings etc. these things make for beautiful natural ledges and gaps that sometimes we aren't even aware of. I think the best part about C.A.P. is skating other peoples things in ways that they didn't think to skate it. I rarely skate my own stuff unless it's for a promo or online with friends because I know the tricks I had in mind when I built it, I find it more fun to watch what people think of and film. I'm more offended that people are blaming it for the demise of creativity, because when I saw that you can build ANYTHING so long as you think creatively I was beyond stoked, a part of me gets bummed when I see people saying this sort of thing.

[Stevland]

For me the point of not knowing if a spot is hard to hit or not is kind of moot. It doesn't even apply to real life skate videos because most people haven't skated any of the spots. I guess personally, skating (in game or in real life) is about expression, not competition.

like slammy said: "maybe its a wrong idea to mix rl and fakeskatebaording ... "

and it is. most enders in videos are a matter of first try in skate. but that's another discussion.

[Duce NLS]

I agree with Rzrfvr about this in relation to RL skate videos, you haven't skated them in RL but appreciate them for what they are surely?

Regards CAP, I'm a CAP fiend myself, but I see it from an angle that (unless I missed something) no one has made too much point of...

Most of the spots in PC are fairly generic, unlike RL where there is unlimited outside factors affecting spots and their skateability, PC is a manufactured city, most of the quirks/unique spots/lines wouldn't have been provided in game, whereas to me, in CAP, I can make all the little quirks and let people find them, in the cases of some of the boys i.e. Mathiys, they often find lines I didn't even realise I'd made.

The problem, personally for me as a bit of a "park nazi" is that A LOT of parks, even well respected ones consist of variously styled stairs/rails and pretty generic lines, just made to look different, the spots aren't that creative themselves. Obviously there are also exceptions to this but that to me is why I end up skating some CAPs alot and most end up touched once and left/deleted.

Just my 2 cents.

Peace

[thesignguy]

I have only used CAP for creative purposes, and to achieve angles that help with a certain trick. I have never had a generic spot in any of my parks. The down side of that is its hard to get a good look to the park. My parks look like no other parks but they also don't look like anything real either. If I film at a park (only ever at my parks) I only try things not possible in any in game spots. I constantly tweek a object to aid in a angle or distance, that isn't possible with a ingame city, your stuck with what you got. I don't think that isn't creative if you achieve something that hasn't been done. I have heard a lot that my style isn't like anyone's style. So maybe CAP lends itself more to me than others.

This video is a good overall view of my second park, but not a real good feel for how I usually skate it.
http://vimeo.com/14961462

[emericaridr11]

man you guys will find anything to bitch about huh?

dont like them dont play them, that simple.... DURH!

[Demzilla]

after making your point of HOW youd like to play the game...

theres a whole other factor as to..
what i want to show off...
or..
how i want to be represented...

im sure everyone here gets interesting tricks all the time..
to film and showcase them is a whole other story...

some kids just wanna jam out with awesome lines...
some have mini bonks and wallies..
some are all handrails...
thats the nature of skateing...

nobody is bitching about anything..
slam jerr sg don everyone..
has grown up with skateboarding in a different way..

i only agree with jerry bear because i like to watch those videos...
and i like to perform the tricks in the game...
to me..
its just not something i want to film and showcase...


and if i did..
those in that genre might consider it insulting to try to reign on there territory...

niggas get mad butthurt in fake skate...

[jerr bear]

man you guys will find anything to bitch about huh?

dont like them dont play them, that simple.... DURH!

If you don't like this thread
don't bother commenting.
Don't be a hypocrit by bitching here...

@Signguy
I think what Demz said earlier applies here (about breaking the engine).

It's not that I wanna find another hole in the system, but I do miss that mentality. When some people can't accomplish something in PC, they tend to turn to CAP.
Not saying that's a bad thing, it just disappoints me video-wise.

It's like, when I look for a certain spot IRL (Yes I actually skate IRL), I'll keep looking because I have no choice - then again I'm not very talented on a board so the spots I look for tend to be rather plain and easy to find - I still wish more people thought that way in S3.

Like when I landed my second fs bigspin and I wanted to find a hip-ish spot / transfer to do that trick on, I settled with this:


Shame I lost every little trick I've ever learned and only land em 1/50

[thesignguy]

expressing ones opinion isn't bitching (and I don't even think you are referring to me)
this aint EA.... DURH!
most of us are grown men and I consider some of the people I am disagreeing with friends

edit:this was meant to be about 2 or 3 posts up

[jerr bear]

niggas get mad butthurt in fake skate...

I guess I finally found my signature haha

[Demzilla]

its weird emerica said that cause i havnt been active here because ive been out skateing...
my knees hurt every day....
my body is hella old...


@jerry bear...

"When some people can't accomplish something in PC, they tend to turn to CAP."

you are...
x100000000000 right here sir....

you read me like an open book...

[thesignguy]

yeah I totally get all of your gripes, I'm not upset or anything, just wanting to understand where you guys are coming from, which surprisingly seems the majority. And as stupid as it sounds I have always (whether right or wrong) tried to stick up for the game because I know I will miss it and everything that comes with it when it is gone.

[emericaridr11]

haha Yall funny

[Demzilla]

theres a few tricks i wanted this past week..
just for the sake of being able to do them..
pc refused to let me do them..
onanything..
wasted too many hours on attempts...

went to cap..
did everything i wanted in a nice 4 hour session..
deleted the park.....

yeah its cheating...
but at least im not stuck in pc for another 2 weeks trying to find that one spot that lets me do this the way i want...

and on a side note...
most cap vids are pretty cut and dry...
mine included...
everyone builds spots but the mindset is still pretty ledge/rail/gap traditional...

[Permy]

Almost unlimited layers killed creativity in the gc

don't care
as long as people can make them look how they want
the only problem i have with the unlimited layers is that I hate having the graphic look just slightly off
lolperfection
fuck gc


oh and slamooh
what the fuck
GET ON XBOX FAGGOT

[jerr bear]

Feels like CAP was their excuse for a crappy city

[NotedDerk]

this thread reminds me of the one innout made about the object dropper making things less creative.

[Ohmidineffect]

It deff is Jerr, hahah.
I skate in real life as well or well I used to before I lost everything I learned CAP gives me the opportunity to build spots I've wanted to skate in real life and in videos and shred them like a god. All in all I agree with alot of your statements but I disagree with the focal point which is that C.A.P killed creativity.

On a different note its refreshing to see people say niggas openly hahaha I felt like people would refuse to say it.

[Antwan]

What's wrong with the city..
get real.
The city became bad when your perspective changed
get in that mindset.
I was never really into create a park to begin with..
it was neat but it's time consuming..
and then to think of tricks on the thing I spent hours on
is unreal for someone who likes to put things out often
well I skate things different too so.. 2 cents.

[jerr bear]

I don't even get what you're trying to say.

When did my perspective change? Did my perspective change?

[Antwan]

I didn't use your name Jerr?
"Your" meaning Anyone who sees skate 3 for what it isn't rather than what it is
is no longer in the OG mindset.. spot finding and enjoying it for what it is.
Every version of skate has flaws but we're still playing them senseless.
Skate the city or don't, I guess I'm saying..
So many discussions leading back to how unrealistic sized things are in the city
or whatever your excuse is
it's bullshit..
Spots for days.
Get good.

[jest118]

I agree and thats partly why i dont like CAP
Skateboarding doesnt seem to be about building your spot imo... its about finding a spot and interesting ways to hit it...everyone can hit a rail or a stairset in this game... its weak to do it imo... people keep on doing it though over and over
Since the beginning skateboarding has always been about finding and adapting to spots (see how empty pools made bowl riding), finding the trick (+filming) that goes perfectly with the spot ...
adapting the environment to your fake skating can be considered as laziness
thats why i loved filming for PTC ... go to "insert location" and film... Constraint makes you be creative and think different
And i m way more excited by a creative way to hit a spot rather than a never been done trick on a stair set / ledge.
You can be a "creative" park builder with CAP, it doesnt mean you ll be a creative skater.

as always nothing is black or white... there are multiple shades... and i m still excited when i watch tno cap videos because the dude got the perfect mindset imo...same for manolo.
I just watched a very good documentary about skateboarding in europe (with some comparison with US skateboarding)... Mainly because of the specific architecture here, european skateboarders are kinda more about adapting to the environment and finding weird ways to hit spots. America is made of skateboarding spots, concrete and shit, and its more about bangers down those spots.
At the same time, there are exceptions... guys like Pontus alv...he s all about redefining the urban environment / architecture. And see Richie Jackson hes all about the weirdest ways to hit spots...

I disagree with everything you said here. Skateboarding is different for everyone. For a guy like Vallely.. it's about Self Expression. For a guy like P Rod, it's a Career that he enjoys. For hundreds of skaters who stay "flow" for their entire careers.. it's a way of life and for thousands of kids everywhere.. it's just something they love doing after school. There is no one purpose for skateboarding.

As for the difference between US and European skating.. you've got things a bit twisted. The US is not filled with spots though the quality of spots tends to be better. The reason VIDEOS have developed the way they have is because of the extreme lack of spots and the difficulty in good footage. If I see a trick down Wilshire 15 it's not just the height, landing and street that the skater had to contend with.. it's the security as well. If I see a line at DWP I know that line had to have been landed first or second try after the skater and filmer snuck over the bridge, past the Police Officers.

I agree with the french bloke.

I can see why people like CAP, simply because it gives them new things to skate. For me personally it's not that interesting. When I watch a PC video I can relate to the spots and the difficulty/creativity.
When I watch a CAP video I have no idea about the spots. Yes, that rail may be a bitch to hit, but I don't know that and I'll probably never find out. I still watch the videos and I enjoy the CAPs and the skating, but it's no comparison to a PC video.
And the horrible framerate of CAPs only adds up to that.

Just because the spot is in PC doesn't mean you'll know how difficult the trick was. Especially with the artistic camera angles and quick cuts. Likewise the creation of UG's in CAP lets you know exactly how difficult footage was to get.

I totally understand what you are saying. But I don't think it's creativity that is a basis for your argument. All you guys are just stating you side on weather you like cap street skating skate parks or vert. I just don't really see how that has anything to do with creativity but more with personal preference. I totally understand what stevland is saying about hitting a spot that's created, not knowing or understanding the difficulty of it. This comes to play certainly with filming. Sometimes the best angle kills all credibility of difficulty. But the viewers interpretation doesn't have anything to do with creativity. If the title of this thread was "any cap clip kills my viewing enjoyment" then I might be more on your side.

Pretty spot on here.

i don't see many opportunities in CAPS, standard ledges rails and stuff. sometimes parks are kinda twisted and i love it (vp, tno, ...) but most of the time its kinda bland, like a skatepark. even if you try hard, you dont have opportunities to get creative.
and i think it has something to do with builders creativity.

Yes and no. The parks are no different than PC in that there's very obvious ways to skate them and there are not so obvious ways. If a player can find unintended ways to skate PC why is it so hard to believe that they can't do the same in CAP?

its weird emerica said that cause i havnt been active here because ive been out skateing...
my knees hurt every day....
my body is hella old...


@jerry bear...

"When some people can't accomplish something in PC, they tend to turn to CAP."

you are...
x100000000000 right here sir....

you read me like an open book...

Yup.. like when you can't find the right type of UG's you're looking for.. so you make a UG park in CAP.

[jerr bear]

The city became bad when your perspective changed

I think the city became really bad in comparison to SV and NSV.
Which is why I asked those questions.
+ I'm the OP.

You do the math.

[Demzilla]

hip hop was long dead before soja boi...


note...

jery bear..
im filming all of my bullshit just for you...
lil min edit soonish...

[old-skooler-34]

This is why I don't like making 'skate parks" and only build cities, towns, and plaza style parks in CAP. It's also why when asked for advice I say "design a real life area first! keep skating it in the back of your mind"....

Nothing can kill creativity, it can only dwindle from within.

[pawnluvguitarist]

This is why I don't like making 'skate parks" and only build cities, towns, and plaza style parks in CAP. It's also why when asked for advice I say "design a real life area first! keep skating it in the back of your mind"....

Nothing can kill creativity, it can only dwindle from within.

That's why I love your parks man, it's the attention to detail, more built to be aesthetically pleasing and authentic looking. Like you said, not necessarily built for skating. Let the skaters worry about the skating.

[FullyFl4RED00]

Haha you know what guys I like debating on stuff like this its a good time
so I see the situation we have in the following way:
1. As someone said earlier(can't look back to see who cause im on phone) cap is another "outlet" for creativity. This statement is not really logically deniable due to the nature of cap itself. It is a creative tool...to put it metaphorically cap is like a canvas and painting equipment. It is used to create and is therefore a creative outlet. We input creativity, skill, and action into cap...the game processes our input and manifest it into a tangible thing, a piece of art in many cases.
2. Cap building, skating, and filming is a different but connected creative outlet to filming and skating in PC.
3. Here at fluckit we have mostly similar goals. We try to make this game like real skateboarding. That means tricks, filming, etc. And we can achieve these goals through both PC and CAP. Due to the small population that still plays this game the introduction of a thing like cap to the community has resulted in a shift...a paradigm shift! By this I mean people now film videos in both pc and cap and for different reasons. Naturally some people have developed preferences/biases towards one outlet over another because they arguably have different things to offer...and as a result you see the effect clearly in our videos because of our size. So from the perspective of Jerr, creativity has been killed because he prefers looking for spots in pc and trying to make old spots look new and skate things differently than everyone else. He doesn't see this type of creativity as often and that is what he prefers...so as a whole he sees a decline in creativity. But from the perspective of someone like me, who enjoys building and filming at caps, there seems to be increasing levels of creativity and skill appearing. Creativity by definition is not declining it just has different types and outlets. One outlet may become more popular than another but the outlet itself is still there so creativity of that type can still be produced. I like turtles

[emericaridr11]

seems like your looking for the Skate 1 Skate 2 experience still...

[Demzilla]

YOUR MISSING THE POINT....

jerry bear isnt asking if cap killed the creativity of the community....

that would be impossible and jerry bear knows this...

what hes asking is..
has the create a park hindered the communities mindset when it comes to thinking outside the box on regular/bland spots...

[jest118]

YOUR MISSING THE POINT....

jerry bear isnt asking if cap killed the creativity of the community....

that would be impossible and jerry bear knows this...

what hes asking is..
has the create a park hindered the communities mindset when it comes to thinking outside the box on regular/bland spots...

I think it just plateau'd early. I mean.. it has to be recognized that by the time Skate 3 came out.. people weren't looking to skate anything in a "normal" way. The Community that tries to push the physics, skate the unskateable, and hit things from odd angles, in odd ways had already grown through Skate 1 and 2. So you didn't have that incubation period where no one was doing it. People were pushing it from day 1 with S3. So until someone finds another way to "break" the physics or another NEW version of stuff that tweaks trick animations the vast majority of things is abd at this point.

As ridiculous as the whole abd concept is.. no one wants to blatantly bite someone else's tricks.. so what's really left? This is a part of the reason that I skate without concern for physics breaking, animation tweaking, and all that. It's a ton of extra effort just to end up being like a dozen other people and I, personally, don't find it fun or all that rewarding. I prefer skating in a way that I find aesthetically appealing. It's not difficult at all and the camera angles aren't mindblowing or super creative like a Habitat (the board company) video but I like it and at the end of the day that's what's it's about. Each individual person finding fun in it.

[Jack]

Heated discussion here. I think my goals or my standards for my own fake skating have always been a bit more cavalier. I agree that skating is an art. When Andy Warhol painted the Campbell Soup Can on a 4 story canvass that was art. When I grab a can of Campbell's Soup that is not art. The difference is in the intention of the creator. Campbell's Soup wants you to eat soup. Warhol wanted you to think about Pop culture in a brand new way. If we take this analogy and move it to skateboarding we can quickly come up with an analog. Gino Iannucci is one of the very first skaters to throw a switch kickflip down a set of stairs and make it look good. He made it look almost better than skating regular. People were tripping the fuck out because they either could not do switch flips or it took them 500 tries to do switch flips and when they landed them there was toe drag and hell drag, and their knees buckled and their arms flailed and they were covered in dirt and sweat from the first 499 bails. Now, PRod has flawless looking switch flips that only take a few tries but they will never be better than Gino's because PRod is an un-ironic Campbell's soup can; by which I mean dude has pop sponsors on every single piece of his clothing; he doesn't dress himself Mountain Dew dresses him. Let's take another step back and apply this to the City and Cap and Skate 3 and intended style all in the context of art. If tno builds a beautiful rainbow colored park with a monster rail to bank that you can't roll away from unless you perfectly roll away on a stop sign sunk into the transition at the bottom of the bank that is mother fucking art because that spot does not exist anywhere else other than tno's brain. Mountain Dew doesn't dress tno's brain, tno dresses his brain with white butcher coats and mad scientist goggles. If Skatehead builds a beautiful white hubba to brick wall that is almost impossible to land a 5-0 on and then Demzilla pulls a tweaked noseblunt with a stylish ride away that seems to ignore the wall, the tight landing, the crooked run up then that is Mother Fucking Art. Even if I spend two weeks trying to get a fakie frontside blunt inward heel popless with a clean roll away I know that I'm just biting Demzilla's already flawless trick on Skatehead's wildly inventive White Rabbit Hubba. I'm still putting that shit in as my ender because it took me two weeks, but it's art layered on top of art imitating art and you better know that I'm not letting Mountain Dew tell me what kind of socks I'm wearing.

[old-skooler-34]

YOUR MISSING THE POINT....

jerry bear isnt asking if cap killed the creativity of the community....

that would be impossible and jerry bear knows this...

what hes asking is..
has the create a park hindered the communities mindset when it comes to thinking outside the box on regular/bland spots...

He really should of put that in his first post!

The question is still kinda silly though. If someone is a creative outside the box type skater no matter where they are they're going to look for something creative to do. Even if someone just built a park with 1 ledge in it creativity will happen. I can't imagine someone who's creative becoming less creative because they're in or built a CAP.

[Mark the Sith]

I'm still finding new ways to hit spots in PC, maybe y'all aren't looking hard enough?
CAP is what it is, an outlet for different expression. It's watercolours to PCs' marble sculpture, different but still amazing.

[Antwan]

Either way you get to the point so often that it can't be sharpened any more..
one short dull pencil with plenty of paper..
in other's perspective anyway
I use multiple pens, cause I'm badass.

Responding to what I said won't change it though
if you use create a park and avoid the city
For whatever reason
you're just being lazy.

Ungrindables? Eh
maybe people don't know but there is a way to make grindables ungrindable while doing an ollie in on skate 3..
Finding it pretty fun.
Maybe you need to start destroying the game again friends..
I find something new with the engine almost every other day.

[MarcoPoloUSN]

Responding to what I said won't change it though
if you use create a park and avoid the city
For whatever reason
you're just being lazy.

What do you mean by this? In terms of making videos that makes you lazy?

I mean if the video is purposefully for CAP, then no, that comment is irrelevant. But making solos with unique spots is a different story. I agree that CAP can take the creativity and authenticity away from a solo. To me a solo is about finding spots in the actual city... maybe finding tweaks in the engine too. I make sure that my solos are strictly PC.

Btw... CAPs take a lot of time and effort. I enjoy CAPs that take a lot of work to make. I'd appreciate that.