C.A.P. killed creativity.

[jest118]

I agree and thats partly why i dont like CAP
Skateboarding doesnt seem to be about building your spot imo... its about finding a spot and interesting ways to hit it...everyone can hit a rail or a stairset in this game... its weak to do it imo... people keep on doing it though over and over
Since the beginning skateboarding has always been about finding and adapting to spots (see how empty pools made bowl riding), finding the trick (+filming) that goes perfectly with the spot ...
adapting the environment to your fake skating can be considered as laziness
thats why i loved filming for PTC ... go to "insert location" and film... Constraint makes you be creative and think different
And i m way more excited by a creative way to hit a spot rather than a never been done trick on a stair set / ledge.
You can be a "creative" park builder with CAP, it doesnt mean you ll be a creative skater.

as always nothing is black or white... there are multiple shades... and i m still excited when i watch tno cap videos because the dude got the perfect mindset imo...same for manolo.
I just watched a very good documentary about skateboarding in europe (with some comparison with US skateboarding)... Mainly because of the specific architecture here, european skateboarders are kinda more about adapting to the environment and finding weird ways to hit spots. America is made of skateboarding spots, concrete and shit, and its more about bangers down those spots.
At the same time, there are exceptions... guys like Pontus alv...he s all about redefining the urban environment / architecture. And see Richie Jackson hes all about the weirdest ways to hit spots...

I disagree with everything you said here. Skateboarding is different for everyone. For a guy like Vallely.. it's about Self Expression. For a guy like P Rod, it's a Career that he enjoys. For hundreds of skaters who stay "flow" for their entire careers.. it's a way of life and for thousands of kids everywhere.. it's just something they love doing after school. There is no one purpose for skateboarding.

As for the difference between US and European skating.. you've got things a bit twisted. The US is not filled with spots though the quality of spots tends to be better. The reason VIDEOS have developed the way they have is because of the extreme lack of spots and the difficulty in good footage. If I see a trick down Wilshire 15 it's not just the height, landing and street that the skater had to contend with.. it's the security as well. If I see a line at DWP I know that line had to have been landed first or second try after the skater and filmer snuck over the bridge, past the Police Officers.

I agree with the french bloke.

I can see why people like CAP, simply because it gives them new things to skate. For me personally it's not that interesting. When I watch a PC video I can relate to the spots and the difficulty/creativity.
When I watch a CAP video I have no idea about the spots. Yes, that rail may be a bitch to hit, but I don't know that and I'll probably never find out. I still watch the videos and I enjoy the CAPs and the skating, but it's no comparison to a PC video.
And the horrible framerate of CAPs only adds up to that.

Just because the spot is in PC doesn't mean you'll know how difficult the trick was. Especially with the artistic camera angles and quick cuts. Likewise the creation of UG's in CAP lets you know exactly how difficult footage was to get.

I totally understand what you are saying. But I don't think it's creativity that is a basis for your argument. All you guys are just stating you side on weather you like cap street skating skate parks or vert. I just don't really see how that has anything to do with creativity but more with personal preference. I totally understand what stevland is saying about hitting a spot that's created, not knowing or understanding the difficulty of it. This comes to play certainly with filming. Sometimes the best angle kills all credibility of difficulty. But the viewers interpretation doesn't have anything to do with creativity. If the title of this thread was "any cap clip kills my viewing enjoyment" then I might be more on your side.

Pretty spot on here.

i don't see many opportunities in CAPS, standard ledges rails and stuff. sometimes parks are kinda twisted and i love it (vp, tno, ...) but most of the time its kinda bland, like a skatepark. even if you try hard, you dont have opportunities to get creative.
and i think it has something to do with builders creativity.

Yes and no. The parks are no different than PC in that there's very obvious ways to skate them and there are not so obvious ways. If a player can find unintended ways to skate PC why is it so hard to believe that they can't do the same in CAP?

its weird emerica said that cause i havnt been active here because ive been out skateing...
my knees hurt every day....
my body is hella old...


@jerry bear...

"When some people can't accomplish something in PC, they tend to turn to CAP."

you are...
x100000000000 right here sir....

you read me like an open book...

Yup.. like when you can't find the right type of UG's you're looking for.. so you make a UG park in CAP.

[Demzilla]

hip hop was long dead before soja boi...


note...

jery bear..
im filming all of my bullshit just for you...
lil min edit soonish...

[old-skooler-34]

This is why I don't like making 'skate parks" and only build cities, towns, and plaza style parks in CAP. It's also why when asked for advice I say "design a real life area first! keep skating it in the back of your mind"....

Nothing can kill creativity, it can only dwindle from within.

[pawnluvguitarist]

This is why I don't like making 'skate parks" and only build cities, towns, and plaza style parks in CAP. It's also why when asked for advice I say "design a real life area first! keep skating it in the back of your mind"....

Nothing can kill creativity, it can only dwindle from within.

That's why I love your parks man, it's the attention to detail, more built to be aesthetically pleasing and authentic looking. Like you said, not necessarily built for skating. Let the skaters worry about the skating.

[emericaridr11]

seems like your looking for the Skate 1 Skate 2 experience still...

[Demzilla]

YOUR MISSING THE POINT....

jerry bear isnt asking if cap killed the creativity of the community....

that would be impossible and jerry bear knows this...

what hes asking is..
has the create a park hindered the communities mindset when it comes to thinking outside the box on regular/bland spots...

[jest118]

YOUR MISSING THE POINT....

jerry bear isnt asking if cap killed the creativity of the community....

that would be impossible and jerry bear knows this...

what hes asking is..
has the create a park hindered the communities mindset when it comes to thinking outside the box on regular/bland spots...

I think it just plateau'd early. I mean.. it has to be recognized that by the time Skate 3 came out.. people weren't looking to skate anything in a "normal" way. The Community that tries to push the physics, skate the unskateable, and hit things from odd angles, in odd ways had already grown through Skate 1 and 2. So you didn't have that incubation period where no one was doing it. People were pushing it from day 1 with S3. So until someone finds another way to "break" the physics or another NEW version of stuff that tweaks trick animations the vast majority of things is abd at this point.

As ridiculous as the whole abd concept is.. no one wants to blatantly bite someone else's tricks.. so what's really left? This is a part of the reason that I skate without concern for physics breaking, animation tweaking, and all that. It's a ton of extra effort just to end up being like a dozen other people and I, personally, don't find it fun or all that rewarding. I prefer skating in a way that I find aesthetically appealing. It's not difficult at all and the camera angles aren't mindblowing or super creative like a Habitat (the board company) video but I like it and at the end of the day that's what's it's about. Each individual person finding fun in it.

[Jack]

Heated discussion here. I think my goals or my standards for my own fake skating have always been a bit more cavalier. I agree that skating is an art. When Andy Warhol painted the Campbell Soup Can on a 4 story canvass that was art. When I grab a can of Campbell's Soup that is not art. The difference is in the intention of the creator. Campbell's Soup wants you to eat soup. Warhol wanted you to think about Pop culture in a brand new way. If we take this analogy and move it to skateboarding we can quickly come up with an analog. Gino Iannucci is one of the very first skaters to throw a switch kickflip down a set of stairs and make it look good. He made it look almost better than skating regular. People were tripping the fuck out because they either could not do switch flips or it took them 500 tries to do switch flips and when they landed them there was toe drag and hell drag, and their knees buckled and their arms flailed and they were covered in dirt and sweat from the first 499 bails. Now, PRod has flawless looking switch flips that only take a few tries but they will never be better than Gino's because PRod is an un-ironic Campbell's soup can; by which I mean dude has pop sponsors on every single piece of his clothing; he doesn't dress himself Mountain Dew dresses him. Let's take another step back and apply this to the City and Cap and Skate 3 and intended style all in the context of art. If tno builds a beautiful rainbow colored park with a monster rail to bank that you can't roll away from unless you perfectly roll away on a stop sign sunk into the transition at the bottom of the bank that is mother fucking art because that spot does not exist anywhere else other than tno's brain. Mountain Dew doesn't dress tno's brain, tno dresses his brain with white butcher coats and mad scientist goggles. If Skatehead builds a beautiful white hubba to brick wall that is almost impossible to land a 5-0 on and then Demzilla pulls a tweaked noseblunt with a stylish ride away that seems to ignore the wall, the tight landing, the crooked run up then that is Mother Fucking Art. Even if I spend two weeks trying to get a fakie frontside blunt inward heel popless with a clean roll away I know that I'm just biting Demzilla's already flawless trick on Skatehead's wildly inventive White Rabbit Hubba. I'm still putting that shit in as my ender because it took me two weeks, but it's art layered on top of art imitating art and you better know that I'm not letting Mountain Dew tell me what kind of socks I'm wearing.

[BeatChemist]

Even if I spend two weeks trying to get a fakie frontside blunt inward heel popless with a clean roll away I know that I'm just biting Demzilla's already flawless trick on Skatehead's wildly inventive White Rabbit Hubba. I'm still putting that shit in as my ender because it took me two weeks, but it's art layered on top of art imitating art and you better know that I'm not letting Mountain Dew tell me what kind of socks I'm wearing.

hahahah I randomly lurked this thread and had to comment on Jack's post. Dude you are fucking hilarious.

Also. I am fucking stoked to see that people are still into skate enough to carry on arguments about it.

I tend to think about my fakeskating the way Jest does... I'm just looking to have fun and make things aesthetically pleasing. Difficulty isn't of high importance to me, but I respect those who make it their ultimate goal. So I don't feel bad about using a CAP to film a trick. Because if I think it looks good, I'm going to film it. It's that simple to me. I don't get too caught up in much else. Maybe that's why not many people watch my vids, but really... who cares?

I think saying that CAP kills creativity is a bit of a stretch. It changed it, for sure. For the better or worse? That's way too subjective.

[jest118]

Difficulty isn't of high importance to me, but I respect those who make it their ultimate goal. So I don't feel bad about using a CAP to film a trick. Because if I think it looks good, I'm going to film it. It's that simple to me. I don't get too caught up in much else. Maybe that's why not many people watch my vids, but really... who cares?

That is my exact mindset. And you expressed it way better than I did so kudos and thanks for that!

[old-skooler-34]

YOUR MISSING THE POINT....

jerry bear isnt asking if cap killed the creativity of the community....

that would be impossible and jerry bear knows this...

what hes asking is..
has the create a park hindered the communities mindset when it comes to thinking outside the box on regular/bland spots...

He really should of put that in his first post!

The question is still kinda silly though. If someone is a creative outside the box type skater no matter where they are they're going to look for something creative to do. Even if someone just built a park with 1 ledge in it creativity will happen. I can't imagine someone who's creative becoming less creative because they're in or built a CAP.

[Mark the Sith]

I'm still finding new ways to hit spots in PC, maybe y'all aren't looking hard enough?
CAP is what it is, an outlet for different expression. It's watercolours to PCs' marble sculpture, different but still amazing.

[Antwan]

Either way you get to the point so often that it can't be sharpened any more..
one short dull pencil with plenty of paper..
in other's perspective anyway
I use multiple pens, cause I'm badass.

Responding to what I said won't change it though
if you use create a park and avoid the city
For whatever reason
you're just being lazy.

Ungrindables? Eh
maybe people don't know but there is a way to make grindables ungrindable while doing an ollie in on skate 3..
Finding it pretty fun.
Maybe you need to start destroying the game again friends..
I find something new with the engine almost every other day.

[Jebotek]

what hes asking is..
has the create a park hindered the communities mindset when it comes to thinking outside the box on regular/bland spots...

not for me.
that you can build your own cities, doesnt mean that i dont think how i can differently hit that spot, imo.
i love to search things in pc that werent that often done the way i do.
But i also love to sesh in some cap`s and do the same there...

[Deacon]

I think saying CAP killed creativity is very short sighted, but what ever thats your opinion and I respect that.

CAP in itself is creative. It takes time, effort, and imagination to create a environment that looks and feels like a real place. I agree that CAP clips can look very bad on film, however that depends on how you film it and what CAP you are skating. CAP Faction & Pandora to name just two have made some very realistic looking locations with interesting spots that aren't obvious that allow you to find your own way to skate it.

I love PC in general (the old factory area, down town, and the Daly estates etc. and I often find new spots when skating about or find a different way to hit an old spot. However my fav environment to skate is a school ( s1 and s2 had Willow/GED etC) however in S3 the PC college doesn't have that feel. I know I can always go back and play s1 and s2 but I am a sucker for s3 at times.

I'd still play the game without CAP, however after much searching (and also now building) I now have a nice collection of varied and realistic looking schoool locations toskate, and in turn I have added longevity to the game for me.