C.A.P. killed creativity.

[Slamooh]

I agree and thats partly why i dont like CAP
Skateboarding doesnt seem to be about building your spot imo... its about finding a spot and interesting ways to hit it...everyone can hit a rail or a stairset in this game... its weak to do it imo... people keep on doing it though over and over
Since the beginning skateboarding has always been about finding and adapting to spots (see how empty pools made bowl riding), finding the trick (+filming) that goes perfectly with the spot ...
adapting the environment to your fake skating can be considered as laziness
thats why i loved filming for PTC ... go to "insert location" and film... Constraint makes you be creative and think different
And i m way more excited by a creative way to hit a spot rather than a never been done trick on a stair set / ledge.
You can be a "creative" park builder with CAP, it doesnt mean you ll be a creative skater.

as always nothing is black or white... there are multiple shades... and i m still excited when i watch tno cap videos because the dude got the perfect mindset imo...same for manolo.
I just watched a very good documentary about skateboarding in europe (with some comparison with US skateboarding)... Mainly because of the specific architecture here, european skateboarders are kinda more about adapting to the environment and finding weird ways to hit spots. America is made of skateboarding spots, concrete and shit, and its more about bangers down those spots.
At the same time, there are exceptions... guys like Pontus alv...he s all about redefining the urban environment / architecture. And see Richie Jackson hes all about the weirdest ways to hit spots...

[EternalRewind]

No one disagrees that apart of skating is finding spots but saying making spots to skate in s3 or real life isnt as creative is like saying f u your skating sucks..And Im sure thats how you fell about it because your saying theres no creativity in it..

Not trying to be a dick but some of you dont even skate in real life... And your tellin me what skateboarding is and whats creative...

[LanceForLife]

video killed the radio star

/thread

[Slamooh]

But what is creativity ?
i think everyone got his own definition. And nobody can say "my creativity is better than yours"...
eternal, i sometimes have trouble to express my feelings as english is not my native language... as a result it can be slightly different from what i really have in mind. What i mean is : i m more sensitive about spots and ways to hit spots rather than tricks. but everyone is free to feel different. theres no judgement.

how many daewon song / rodney mullen in the scene ? Those guys would make lie anyone talking about creativity. They are aliens

[EternalRewind]

Its cool Slamooh.. Its kind of offending saying CAP isnt creative...

And instead of editing your post/ adding to the end after you read my last post, it would be nice if you keep it after my last post

[Slamooh]

sorry i wanted to change some sentences because it seemed it wasn't well explained and kinda offensive for no reason. my bad
skateboarding is kinda like art (well i would say it is art) so subjectivity is full on.
and i don't mean CAP isn't creative. I'm just not "feeling" it... it doesn't mean people building CAP are wasting their time and i'm not saying there's no creativity involved in it. Its just i dont see many CAP that make me go "damn, this is clever, well thought or challenging for skateboarding", many CAP are standard skateparks despite this tool's endless possibilities.

[Stevland]

I agree with the french bloke.

I can see why people like CAP, simply because it gives them new things to skate. For me personally it's not that interesting. When I watch a PC video I can relate to the spots and the difficulty/creativity.
When I watch a CAP video I have no idea about the spots. Yes, that rail may be a bitch to hit, but I don't know that and I'll probably never find out. I still watch the videos and I enjoy the CAPs and the skating, but it's no comparison to a PC video.
And the horrible framerate of CAPs only adds up to that.

[Slamooh]

sign guy, when im talking about pools / bowls, im talking about the opportunity given by dryness... skateboarders took that opportunity and they were like "look at this empty pool, i'm pretty sure we can ride it even if it's not made for"... like skateboarders take opportunities in the street. its not the same opportunity at all when you go to a skatepark to ride perfectly shaped transitions. transitions are made for skateboarding, street isnt. and you're right, after that dryness thing, it was all about the best transition... at the same time, street skateboarding started to evolve too.
but i've always thought skateboarding is about hitting something that is not meant for (that's certainly why i dont like transition... or is it the other way around ? i don't know...)

its pretty hard to explain to be honest. i definitely agree with jerrel and stev.
as steve says, I can relate to the spots and the difficulty/creativity in a PC video. not everyone in the community is obsessed about difficulty...i am.

maybe its a wrong idea to mix rl and fakeskatebaording ...

[thesignguy]

I totally understand what you are saying. But I don't think it's creativity that is a basis for your argument. All you guys are just stating you side on weather you like cap street skating skate parks or vert. I just don't really see how that has anything to do with creativity but more with personal preference. I totally understand what stevland is saying about hitting a spot that's created, not knowing or understanding the difficulty of it. This comes to play certainly with filming. Sometimes the best angle kills all credibility of difficulty. But the viewers interpretation doesn't have anything to do with creativity. If the title of this thread was "any cap clip kills my viewing enjoyment" then I might be more on your side.

[knexzor]

I agree with the french bloke.

I can see why people like CAP, simply because it gives them new things to skate. For me personally it's not that interesting. When I watch a PC video I can relate to the spots and the difficulty/creativity.
When I watch a CAP video I have no idea about the spots. Yes, that rail may be a bitch to hit, but I don't know that and I'll probably never find out. I still watch the videos and I enjoy the CAPs and the skating, but it's no comparison to a PC video.
And the horrible framerate of CAPs only adds up to that.

Bold sums up my views.
I might also add that most PC spots have the same 'I don't know how hard that was'-factor, atleast to me.
Spots in general don't have the same impact on me as it did in OG/s2, perhaps because everything feels optimized to be easy-to-hit in skate 3.

After they found pools what came next? Building the perfect transition to achieve what they wanted.

Previously mentioned Pontus Alv actually does the exact opposite, he designed one of the parks here in Malmö and it has all the small, tight and quirky transitions you could wish for. Really hard to skate but really fun.

[B4NE1]

my thoughts... create in pc with dropables

http://www.youtube.com/user/IRONMONK.../1/qiL92O0N0Es

[B4NE1]

i had ppl constantly asking me where i was skating when i had clips up before editing my video.. they were skating all over the place trying to find dumpsters that werent there...

creativity comes from within ones self. not whats on a screen
whether you create caps, skate pc, or create object dropper spots in either cap or pc, you need the drive to do so. not to mention meticulously laying tricks down at these places...

Im sure that not 1 person in the community has "creatively" filmed in 100% of the pc, not to mention the thousands of caps creatively thought up by those minds..

I didnt play skate for like 8-9 months and when I came back, it almost felt like a brand new game.

Mabey a break would do you good Jerr...
Or skate 4 lolz

or take an empty spot and fill the bastard with droppables, and get creative
Example Below

http://www.youtube.com/user/IRONMONK.../1/qiL92O0N0Es

[zodas]

You honestly think wed be better off with just PC and no CAP? CAP saved this game from the grips of PC and its crappiness.

[MarcoPoloUSN]

You honestly think wed be better off with just PC and no CAP? CAP saved this game from the grips of PC and its crappiness.

this. that is all

[rzrfvr]

You honestly think wed be better off with just PC and no CAP? CAP saved this game from the grips of PC and its crappiness.

Yes, definately yes! Edit: In reference to CAP saving this game... That was a bit unclear

Here's a different take on this whole discussion.

In a sense, the object dropper kind of killed parts of PC I think in combination with CAP. I'm strictly talking about for the developers now. When I look at PC I see what a lot of you see: copied spots, too much open space etc.

The reason for this isn't directly that they decided to throw in the object dropper and CAP but the fact that they tried to do it while also building PC. They didn't have the time to build a great city like San Vanelona and also come up with a lot of great objects for CAP.

I have no insight in the development process but my guess is that at least some of the guys who designed the city also did stuff that ended up in CAP and object dropper. And they did it more or less at the same time. In my opinion that resulted in having lots of CAP objects in PC and not the other way around.

In SV and NSV there where a ton of different looking trees and benches that where specific for a certain area. In PC, you can see the same tree in many different places and the same texture in different areas. This is probably not laziness but rather a shortage of time and a mentality that said: CAP and PC share a lot of assets so why not take a CAP-approach when building the city, the players can improve it with the object dropper.

In short: CAP helped kill creativity (for the developers). But deadlines was the real culprit.

[momadaddy]

i know im late to the party here but, no it didnt kill anything. if u build objects to cater to a specific trick then sure that makes it easy but on the other hand it takes a load of creativity to build some of these parks. and if anyone thinks that a trick/line isnt creative simply because its in a created park, i offer this witty retort. "YOUR MOM". some one once said to me " its not about the spot you skate., its about how you skate the spot." lulz. i think that applies to CAP as well. thats my 2 cents. take it what it is.

[jerr bear]

Slammy basically summed it up for me hah, thanks for that - I find it hard to explain how I feel about this.

About Song and Mullen, I feel that their ability and skill made the 'spots' they created so... amazing.

For instance the picnic table train;

The thing that made the clip so special is that Mullen was able to pull that manny off, not that he was able to align the tables like that. They're so exceptional they can adapt the environment to them and make the clip completely refreshing.

But the thing is, Skate 3 is a video-game. The actual tricks you do barely have value (to me, how difficult they may be), it's the mindset that makes the clip.

Maybe it's just that;

-When you're in CAP-mode, you know you can land tricks down the spots you made.
-You can adjust anything with ease
-When you align picnic tables like mullen did IRL, you've only done 10% of the job while in Skate 3 it seems to be 90%.


That's why I find it way more creative to see what an individual can do at locations that are open for everyone.

About what Linny said about the movables in Skate 2, I think it's all a matter of the way you use it. As far as I know they helped me reach certain spots and height to do certain tricks, speaking of which, so did Linny:


Skip to 3:13

In this clip Linny hid a dumpster so he could trick over the hedge, basically deceiving the viewers.

[thesignguy]

I agree and thats partly why i dont like CAP
Skateboarding doesnt seem to be about building your spot imo... its about finding a spot and interesting ways to hit it...everyone can hit a rail or a stairset in this game... its weak to do it imo... people keep on doing it though over and over
Since the beginning skateboarding has always been about finding and adapting to spots (see how empty pools made bowl riding), finding the trick (+filming) that goes perfectly with the spot ...
adapting the environment to your fake skating can be considered as laziness

I don't agree with this, depending on which era of skateboarding you came from. After they found pools what came next? Building the perfect transition to achieve what they wanted. Before h-street there was a entire decade of 100% created vert and mini ramps. I really don't understand anyone's logic to say CAP is "lazy" or "not creative" it's what the person does on any spot, created by them, an architect, a game developer, or some dude that made a CAP that makes something creative plain n simple